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Critique Lukky - Part 3

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lukkyseven's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2011  10:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So honest to goodness these ones are unedited with the stock 18-55mm lens. I think I'm doing better when I put the time into it!

Don't hold back though

Critique-Lukky---Part-3
Critique-Lukky---Part-3
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lukkyseven's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2011  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These pictures do look better once they've been sharpened once, but I did just want to post them raw.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2011  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're there. I *really* like the subtlety of the colors in these images. I still think you're giving up flcos sharpness for size, though, unless the coin is actually 800px in a fullsize image. If you're shrinking the coin to post it here, back the camera off enough so that your final image size presents an 800-pixel coin, and see if you get a sharper focus. If you don't, ignore me.
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 Posted 07/24/2011  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I do the crop the coin is roughly 1400x1400. So you think I should back it up a tad?
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 Posted 07/24/2011  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the issue you are facing is that you are displaying at or near 100% pixel level details. Digital cameras are not very clear at 100% unless you have a very high resolution lens, and have a very steady setup. Since your nickel is not filling the screen, you are not getting the benefit of "scaling sharpening" that occurs when you fill the sensor with the coin. You will never get away from this until you get a lens that can go to a higher magnification.

To see what I mean, try resizing the image to 50%, and then 25%, and look at the apparent increase in clarity that results. This same thing happens if you can double or quadruple the magnification so you fill the screen with the coin even when you display at the same image size. You are probably just running into the diffraction / aberration limits of the lens and sensor.
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 Posted 07/24/2011  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
When I do the crop the coin is roughly 1400x1400. So you think I should back it up a tad?


Shooting the exact same lens, I found the closest I could get at 55mm and be satisfied with the focus sharpness (I use that term because not all sharpness has to happen inside the camera ) left a Morgan dollar about that size, 1400px. A Jeff is a much smaller coin; you're much closer than my experimentation allowed me to go. Inexpensive production lenses differ between examples; you're not nearly as bad here as the results I was getting by pushing close enough to make the Morgan 1700px, for instance. But I believe you're leaving sharpness on the table by being so close.

Shoot for 1000px rather than 1400px. Try it both by physically moving the camera, and by zooming out, just to see what you get. I really like how you're lighting the coin, and your white balance is spot-on. Don't mess with that for the moment.
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 Posted 07/24/2011  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One more thing, for rmpsrpms: below is an unretouched 100% crop from my experimentation with this lens. It's part of why I believe lukkyseven is still not reaching his lenses' capability:

Critique-Lukky---Part-3
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 Posted 07/24/2011  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One last thing: If anyone's tired of downloading images just to read the EXIF data....

http://www.findexif.com/
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 Posted 07/25/2011  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave...that 100% crop looks pretty good. Then if it isn't the lens, it must be vibration or just an out of focus condition.

I'm still interested in seeing a ++, +, 0, -, -- focus sweep to verify best focus range. Lukkyseven, are you in full manual mode when taking these pics? I don't remember if you said before that you were using manual focus, but are you? If so, have you done a focus sweep?
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 Posted 07/25/2011  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent link SuperDave... what a help. I wish I didn't get rid of my 18-55 so I could experiment and help out a little bit!

This makes me want to take some coin photos!
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 Posted 07/25/2011  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RMPS - I don't know what a focus sweep is. I am shooting in full manual. I feel like I'm getting the most focus possible through the view finder. I spend time on every shot to make sure that the coin is at full focus.

And if I scale back to 50% it's definitely sharper. But the problem is the coin is smaller to the viewer. So for example, if I made these coins 400x400 they're a lot sharper.

I will also say that these two pictures are within my acceptable range for selling a nickel.
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 Posted 07/25/2011  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will also say that these two pictures are within my acceptable range for selling a nickel.


We'll start there. You are absolutely correct, and your imaging is better than 98% of what anyone else is doing with any lens. Browse ebay if you don't believe me.

What rmpsrpms is referring to is a series of shots. Autofocus the first shot, shoot it, and then manually change the focus just_very_slightly in one direction for a second shot. A little more for a third shot. Then, go the other direction for a few more shots. We're talking tiny moves - only a couple degrees on the focus wheel. The idea is to see if your autofocus is not quite hitting it - maybe focusing on the highest part of the coin rather than some center "average." If you're using Live View, tethered to a monitor, you should be manually focusing anyways, because you can see that focus in real time.
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 Posted 07/25/2011  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't been shooting these tethered. I've been putting the camera on a 2 second delay and shooting on my own. Unfortunately where I'm shooting I don't have room for my Laptop.

I could give it a go on the autofocus ordeal and see how that turns out.
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 Posted 07/25/2011  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I wouldn't want to make you try to manually focus using the viewfinder. That'd be cruel.

Not all copies of a lens are identical - there are "good" and "less good" copies of any given lens. Autofocus isn't perfect, either. There's always the possibility that a little more clarity might be obtained by a *slight* focus shift from what autofocus gives you. By "slight," I mean movement probably less than 1/8" of your finger holding the focus grip - a little experimentation and you'll know how much makes a difference in focus without being too much.
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 Posted 07/26/2011  02:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By focus sweep, I mean adjust the focus to where you think it's definitely out of focus on the "high" side and snap a pic, then just a little out of focus "high", then just right, then a little out of focus "low", then definitely out of focus "low", snapping pics at each focal adjustment. Focus for macro is so very critical that even a slight shift in the focal plan adjustment between your reflex mirror and your sensor will make a big difference. You may think you are perfectly in focus, but may not actually be.

I don't recommend going to auto focus. I have not found a camera yet that can give an acceptable autofocus in macro mode. I always have to adjust the focus manually to get best results, and it's almost never the focus that the viewfinder says is correct. My Nikons are always a bit off looking through the viewfinder, and even more off with autofocus. The only way I get acceptable focus in one shot is to use Live View tethered to a PC, and then zoom in to 100% and fine focus until it looks perfect, then snap the pic tethered.

Remember, when you look through the viewfinder, you are not seeing what the sensor will see, but a reflection of it through the mirror, which may not be at exactly the same plane as the sensor. When in Live View, you are seeing the actual image that is hitting the sensor, so you can trust critical focusing.

Does your Canon have a Live View mode? I shoot Nikons so don't know much about Canon features. Judging by my Nikon, the various modes induce different amounts of blurriness in the following order:

worst: pushing shutter button with finger after framing and focusing in viewfinder
better: using a timer or PC tether after framing and focusing in viewfinder
best: using a timer/tether in Live View

Your Canon likely has one more option that my Nikon does not have: Quiet mode. Actually, my Nikon has a Quiet Mode but it only makes the mirror move more slowly so it is quieter. Your Canon has a special shutter mode that only Canons have that is enabled in the Quiet mode.

By the way, I am being highly critical because "you asked for it". In reality your pics do look good, and your lighting and color are quite good. But I always say that getting good focus is the number one job, with lighting and other compositional topics coming second in priority. So keep working on getting the focus nailed!
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
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 Posted 07/26/2011  06:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RMPS you're not going to hurt my feelings so don't worry about that :). Live view would just be the display on the back of the camera correct? Because I was opting to not use that and actually look through the view finder every time.

Heres something else that might sound stupid and could be the problem I'm having. You mention Macro Mode. I've been shooting in a fully manual mode so I doubt that it's actually in Macro. How would I check that in the settings? I think Dave might be better able to help me with this one because he is currently shooting canons.

Also - how do I go into quiet mode? If no one knows I'll be looking it up when I get home from work/vet today. And unfortunately where I'm shooting currently I cant hook up a tether. I'll have to work on creating a space where I can tether.
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