When Did My Coin Become A MS-65 ?

Now we're getting philosophical. The coin can be anything one wants it to be as long as it's not going outside one's own collection. Once a coin leaves a person's collection to be sold, it needs to be represented at some grade. While all of us in CCF strive to represent our coins as closely to the accepted grading standards as possible (we don't have any estatedoctors or aboncoms amongst us, I don't think), we aren't exactly grading experts although some of us aren't too bad. The experts work for PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. We're gonna come within one or two grades of each other on most Morgans, but as we've seen, we can vary widely on difficult coins such as O mint Morgans. We're not gonna get a definitive answer unless we submit it to one of the top TPGs and get an official read-out. After all, that's what they do.

So, the answer to your question is that it doesn't become officially sanctioned as an MS-65 until an accepted top TPG says it's an MS-65. Until then, it's only a guesstimated MS-65.

Fred

PS - It's not New Year's yet.

thats true but when it comes time to sale the buyer values their opinion (no matter how wrong it may be) over the sellers alone

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Originally posted by Metalman

If its a positive confirmed MS-65 after the top TPG has said so !!

How can the same coin be resubmitted and receive either a lower or higher grade ? like the one that started this ? how can it be not cleaned on one submittal and then cleaned on the next ?

I think the top professional graders turn out alot of guesstimates also ,,

but only when they do it with the accepted credibility they are given in the market ,, then many dollars can be had or lost depending on what they need at the moment.

they can either hold a status quo ,increase the top grades or lower the bottom at will by a simple swipe of the pen, and the pop reports are full of examples of this very thing happening ,, you dont honestly believe that only one MS-70 Lincoln Cent has passed over the graders desk do you ?

Rick

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Rick, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Another difference is,we try to do the best we can at grading our own coins and most of us come pretty close but these people are PAID to be right and we expect them to be right 100% of the time as paid professional graders. If their not,whats the point of sending coins to them. My limited experience with grading services so far had been,high value, low population coins are coming back with lower grades or "problem" coins and low value, high population coins are staying the same grade. Me thinks somethings rotten in Denmark.
As far as why to get a coin graded, as Bryan said, as a coin seller,you need to have a coin graded to be fair to the buyer and so they know what they are truly purchasing.At least for high value coins. For your own collection there is no point unless your collection IS graded coins.

Yup, I agree with all the above, even Rick's comments. The TPG system is loaded with flaws, both real and potential, and they have all of us by the lapels. However, until someone comes up with a better system, it's all we got and we have to live by their rules and decisions. It is very much like our system of justice in the US: it very often makes mistakes (think O.J.), isn't particularly fair nor impartial, is loaded with loopholes, is subject to outside influence, and doesn't really dispense "justice" as much as it is a dance between lawyers (the best and most expensive wins), but it's the only system we have and will have to do until somebody comes up with a better one.

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Originally posted by Bryan1315

TLS5933, I know you have tried ANACS but have you tried NGC or PCGS with these coins? If not and you would like to try them and don't want to join their club to be able to submit to them I am a member of both and I would be willing to send your coins in for you, all I ask is you pay the grading fee and the shipping charges, I will not charge a penny extra. I know some dealers send in coins also and you may want to try them to try out the other companies, just remember if there is a question of a coin being cleaned it will be body bagged by the other two companies, but NCS does slab problem coins and if they feel the coin is gradable by NGC they will forward the coin to NGC for grading and encapsulation and only charge you a evaluation fee. I know this may not appeal to you but just figured I would at least offer just in case

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Thanks Bryan,
Thats generous of you.Most of the coins that came back from ANACS,I just put up for sale as I just didn't want to put more $ into them. the 94-O I have just kept for now.I might take you up on your offer at sometime. I have a few more coming in raw.I should just join PCGS as I'm sure I will be using them in the future.I have been using ANACS because of not having to become a member but because of the low $ return from them compared to PCGS and downgrading their own previous grades and the strife inside ANACS right now,I will be switching companies.
Thanks Bryan.

There is nothing new under the sun !!

Since these companies do not tell you by what standards they will be grading your coins ? and they do not guarantee their work ? and the requirement to live by the end results even if the loss to the collector is in the thousands of dollars ?

and the market accepts their opinion above all others, and the collectors support them with their dollars? Defend their lack of consistency,with such quantifiable assertions as (its the best system we have)(thats the way it is )who can argue with such undeniable evidence.

I guess everything is normal in whoville!

Rick

Fred a guarantee that is produced by the King is of little value, who is authorized to disagree with the grade ? it certianly cannot be the collector.If it could then the collector would carry as much weight in the market as the TPG.

when your coin was returned graded as cleaned in a body bag( make no mistake that is the grade of your coin as it stands today ) ,, were your appeals successful ? are you living with this grade or not ? How much money did you lose ? How much did the TPG lose ?

There is no way that a coin can be up or down graded by the use of a standard, if it can then there is no standard, there is only opinion and good and bad hair days.

on the subject of standards,, by definition standards produce consistency ,, without strict standards on technical qualities then no firm opinion on those qualities can be formed, the only subjective part of coin grading should be eye appeal .


Rick

Rick, I'll have to get back to our debate later. ISP problems - looks almost like my satellite was hit by a piece of space debris giving me intermitent transmit problems.

Fred