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Mules

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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2011  11:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a simple question. What is a mule? I have a coin that has a reverse not published for that particular ruler and I have been told it is a mule. Are mules ancient coins or modern fakes? I would show the coin here, but I am away on business and do not have the pictures of my coins with me.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16837 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Mule" is a generic numismatic term for a coin made from two dies that were not intended to be used together. As the CCF glossary states, a famous modern example in US coinage are mules made using a quarter dollar obverse and a Sacagawea dollar reverse.

In ancient coinage, the definition of a mule is a little less clear, since it isn't always obvious which die combinations are "accidental" and which are "deliberate". But a "mule" could be indicated by, for example, the obverse showing a portrait of a junior member of the Imperial family while the reverse has some of the titles of the senior emperor intended for one of the senior emperor's coins. Or a "death commemorative" obverse paired with a reverse that implies the emperor is still very much alive. Or a reverse typically found on "female" coins, paired with a male emperor on the obverse.

I should point out that a "mule" is also a possible sign that a coin is a counterfeit - more likely an ancient counterfeit, or even a barbarous imitation, than a modern forgery - since counterfeiters might be less likely to care about getting the die pairing exactly right. But genuine ancient mules are certainly possible.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
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 Posted 08/09/2011  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you think this mule is an ancient imitation or a genuine?

I've had one opinion saying it was probably an imitation.
I believe it is TRP or TRdotP in exergue.

Mules
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16837 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another excellent example of an ancient mule; the VRBS ROMA obverse is supposed to always have the she-wolf reverse; the Victory-on-prow reverse is supposed to go with the CONSTANTINOPOLIS obverse.

In this case, it looks too crude to be an official mint issue; that plus it's "muleness" make me think it's a barbarous imitation. The wings, especially, look way too spiky. Compare with this one on Wildwinds.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
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 Posted 08/09/2011  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sap

I paid a pretty good sum for this coin. But I thought either way (imitation or official) it would be a good example in my collection.

I'm glad it's a barbarous coin because now I can search for an official example.

I've seen pictures of the opposite mule of this coin....Const obv...wolf/twins rev. I think it was barbarous too.
I'd like to find one of those as well.

I'll have to find some photos of official hybrids so I know what to look for there.

Regards
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am back home and now I can show the coin in question. It is a Philip I Antoninianus with an obv legend reading: IMPMIVLPHILIPPVSAVG - Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right. The rev legend reads: VIRTVTIAVGVSTI - Hercules standing right leaning on club set on rock. A muling of an obverse of Philip with a reverse of Gordian perhaps? Or is it a modern day fake with a mistake of the reverse?



Mules
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been informed that the coin I posted is a modern day fake. The same obverse die was used to create other fakes also muled with Gordian III reverses. So to answer my own question, in part, mules can and are used in modern day fakes as evidenced by this example. However, it is interesting to note that mules were used both officially and unofficially during the empire as well. As a side note: It is a shame I have another fake, but then again, I knew this one was not right.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2011  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fisrtly I really like the 'barbarous mule' Doucet I'm sure thats a coin that would appeal to many collectors (Roma, Constantinople, Constantine and Barbarous collectors to name just four!) and would command a good price. I'd certainly like to own it!

Secondly, thats a good fake JW, no shame being taken in with that one, it would prob have fooled me too.

It reminds me of a thread we had in January where I said I was uncomfortable with the amount of high quality Gordian coins on ebay. As your Philip is 'muled' with Gordian coins perhaps they are from the same fakers.

https://goccf.com/t/79808

Its worrying when the fakes are this good and of the 'cheaper' later Emperors. The GIII coins I was referring to in the above thread were all good enough to fool 90% of collectors on their own but when taken as a whole the situation seemed a bit fishy. I never thought 'coin population' would be a deciding factor in me keeping away from a whole area of coins, sad really. Its lucky we have the fake resources at FAC and Forgery Network etc and we are also lucky experts continue to update them in an attempt to clean up the hobby, to them.

I'm sorry you have another fake JW. It all seems to have been bad news in the ancients forum for a while . Lets have some good news for a bit to balance it out, anyone got any good news?
Edited by bobbyhelmet
08/09/2011 7:28 pm
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2011  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The good news is that I have learned quite a lot with the people on this forum and others, so that the likely hood of me buying anymore fakes is getting lower everyday. To be honest, the coins I have that have been identified as fakes were purchased some time ago. Most of my newest acquisitions (hopefully all)are not suspect and have been purchased from reputable dealers. I am trying to thoroughly go back through all of my coins to identify those that are suspect. Then I will post them here for confirmation. Thanks for all of the teaching points from all of you.
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