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 Replies: 24 / Views: 2,939 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1348 Posts |
Picked this up at an auction tonight. I think I paid too much. Classic case of "paid for the holder." I didn't see the coin before it sold. My question is do you think NGC was even close to the right grade?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
505 Posts |
Not even close...and why is the coin reversed in the second pic?...somebody obviously playing games with the holder or photoshopping,although,If they were trying to sell it,they probably would have used a better coin
Edited by Frazzle
08/19/2011 11:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
I find this coin very difficult to grade, because of the toning(?) and strike. However, I don't think this coin is even remotely close to an MS-64 (IMHO)
In my opinion the coin looks like an VF-35
Edited by Canadian-Banknotes
08/19/2011 11:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1348 Posts |
the reverse picture is flipped thats why it looks to be backwards
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3345 Posts |
Holy crap, is that a fake slab or just a really bad mistake?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
obviously something smells fishy how or why would/could the picture be flipped? but this is the case. and if the coins were truely a flat struck coins its the best they could do if all other details are crisp. I for one think that NGC are over graded after looking at there coins for many years....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I think it is possible that on a technical merit it is a 64 and that could be how they graded this one. The toning is not the most attractive and may be masking some luster and making some of the weakly struck areas look worn. This date is known to have some below average strikes. On a market grading system, I don't think this would merit a 64.
Edited by D0ubl3Eagle
08/19/2011 11:57 pm
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Valued Member
United States
450 Posts |
Does not look like a 64 to me either.
Not much breast feather detail, unless its is just weakly struck.
Eye appeal is not good either.
Sorry , John
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Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts |
the coin is the same as in NGC verification.It is a very easy coin to identify with that ugly patina.It is well known that patina /toning hide a lot of luster which can only seen if you have the coin on hand.I have heard a lot about fake slabs but never saw an example, except those in from NGC 2008.Please if you have such photos upload some over here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
What did you pay for the coin? New Orleans mint Morgan dollars are notorious for poor strikes and lack of detail in the hair above the ear and on the eagle's chest. So, just based on what you see this coin would appear to be circulated when in fact it looked like this, minus the toning, the moment it was struck. For an O mint of this date this coin is actually slightly better than average in strike and I would not hesitate to add this piece to my collection. NGC, PCGS, ANACS all assign grades to coins which many people disagree with. One must remember that grading is subjective and not as objective as people would like. If you don't agree with the grade and price then don't have to buy the coin. I have noticed some members grading coins on this forum that have insufficient knowledge of the series they are attempting to grade. Each coin series be it Morgan dollars, Walking Liberty halves to name two cannot have each year and mint graded by the same standard as there were many dates and mints that would technically grade VF or less based on the details exhibited by the coin fresh out of the dies after striking. Based on this knowledge a person can identify and get a real bargain for a coin with exceptional detail for a particular issue. I like O mint dollars and I look at dozens at each show I attend and look for ones with full feather detail on the eagle and hair above the ear. Dealers who don't care or aren't aware of the poor strike details of O mint dollars are the ones I can buy from without having to pay a premium for a premium coin. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24147 Posts |
Maybe I'm just blind, or it's the images, but the breast feathers look non-existent and all the hairlines look flattened to me.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know O mint coins are known for light strikes but I find it hard to call this one a MS-64 based on these pictures. I am guessing it may be MS, one would have to have the coin in hand to even know if there are luster breaks to keep it from MS. I have no idea why the reverse picture is mirrored but this is what it should look like  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I'm not prepared to call this a miss on NGC's part yet. The obverse is too obscured by toning to make concrete determinations, so I'll base my opinion on the reverse: Talons are flat, a classic sign of a weak strike, as is the lack of detail in the large wreath leaf above the "E." Plenty of detail is noted in the upper edges of the wings nearest the neck, a relatively shallow part of the devices which usually survive a weak strike yet wear early in circulation. The same goes for the eagle's neck itself. I consider the breast inconsequential in New Orleans strikes; heck, when you can see breast feathers at all on a New Orleans coin, you're doing well.  The legs have the classic weak-strike flatness, but this isn't much of a deciding factor because they wear early as well. Was NGC close? I believe so. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
I'm still learning so I really appreciate all the specific information that has been shared about grading.
I am wondering, is it possible for the toning to occur after being slabbed?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I am wondering, is it possible for the toning to occur after being slabbed? Very possible. Slabs are not airtight, and the right atmospheric conditions will tone a coin almost as quickly in a slab as raw. I'm guessing this isn't an example of that, as dark as the toning is, but I may be wrong. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
580 Posts |
I think the biggest question is how much did this coin sell for.
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Replies: 24 / Views: 2,939 |
Posted 08/19/2011 11:03 pm
