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Mint Employee Steals Error Coins

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GTALLEN's Avatar
United States
315 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GTALLEN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Quote:
He obviously forgot that, when it comes to stealing, the government HATES competition.


I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there.
way too funny
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have some off center that will never fit in a roll besides some error that we see make us think only per a inside job !

The vast majority of the millions of off-center coins in existence were not the result of some tinfoil hat wearing mafia conspiracy. A coin does not need to fit in a roll to leave the Mint, the Mint does not even roll business strike coins! Prior to 2000/2001, the majority of errors left the Mint in the old canvas bags that are no longer used. Nothing illegal had to happen for them to leave the Mint. Anyone who has searched the old Fed bags knows that was a good source of errors, even my own father found OC and clipped Kennedy halves and a broadstruck SBA in the 1970s and 80s.

Quote:
some of those off center errors are so wild that you'd think even a slight inspection would have caught it.

Do you really think that every single coin is supposed to be inspected before it leaves the Mint? That would be IMPOSSIBLE with the billions of coins minted annually. Have QC measures improved recently? They most certainly have since the turn of the century when the Mint discontinued the use of canvas bags and started using riddlers for size separation, optical recognition scanning to help detect errors at a much fater rate than any human eye ever could, and wafflers to enable on-site destruction of errors and scrap.



scubu,
my thoughts exactly, either him or Mike Byers- two of the top errror dealers in the US and both just happen to be located in California
Edited by biokemist6
09/09/2011 2:08 pm
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studio's Avatar
United States
56 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add studio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No one said I thought every coin was inspected before it left the building but, as you pointed out, the Mint:


Quote:
...started using riddlers for size separation, optical recognition scanning to help detect errors at a much faster rate than any human eye ever could


So, in that sense, every coin does move through some fashion of inspection process. A square block can't go in a round hole and the most egregious errors should be filtered out through cursory inspection (sorry, I've been using inspection here liberally to include such things as mentioned above).

Also, since it's doubtful that the guard sorted through every coin looking for missing edge lettering I assume that there has to be a bin someplace that with the rejects (before the waffling can commence)and that points to the fact that if the mint can sort out something as minor as missing letters it should be able to figure out that a coin isn't the right shape.

As I said though, I assume 99.9% of errors leave the mint via the natural way, however, as this case proves--not all do and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that some of the more glaring mistakes follow similar paths.
Edited by studio
09/09/2011 2:22 pm
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Ricardocody's Avatar
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1204 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ricardocody to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just think is too many errors available to be just a routine coincidence ! It has to be something else like some help so the coins live the mint . This court case is only one that we came to know , I think !
Edited by Ricardocody
09/09/2011 3:09 pm
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19944 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing that he could smuggle coins out. The mint uses a lot of checks, balances and security. He figured out how to scam the system.....that's surprizing.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24154 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The mint uses a lot of checks, balances and security.


To be honest, I just always assumed they did. Never seen any real evidence though. I've seen 100 times more coverage about casino security than the Mint.
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bjones's Avatar
United States
304 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They should make an Oceans 14 movie and have it take place at the Philly Mint.
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JackB's Avatar
United States
1064 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JackB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
He figured out how to scam the system.....that's surprizing
From his title, maybe he was one of those responsible for security, a good position for a thief.
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little more detail: http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/ec...m-new-jersey

"Prosecutors say Gray then smuggled the error coins out of the Mint where he shipped them to a coin distributor in California from a Rio Grande post office or the FedEx location in Egg Harbor Township. Gray admitted to receiving approximately $2.4 million for the coins, which he later deposited into his Police and Fire Federal Credit Union account. He also failed to report or under-reported his tax liability from the sale of the coins for tax years 2007 and 2009, which amounted to nearly $801,651."
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, so the gubmit was angry he didn't pay taxes on it?

And yes, how did he get them out? Wouldn't they have figured out a lot of their coins went missing? This makes me wonder how many coins are smuggled out WITHOUT their knowledge.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ok, so the gubmit was angry he didn't pay taxes on it?

It worked for Al Capone

The coins were more than likely not smuggled out by the worker himself through standard building exits. There was a case in the 1970s(?) of a couple Mint workers who were creating errors then sneaking them out in the oil pans of forklifts at the Mint. They recovered their stolen property when the forklifts were sent out for servicing

However, as I stated earlier, the VAST MAJORITY of error coins(>99%) have left the Mints through perfectly legal means. The Fed ships massive quantities of coins to armored carrier companies(Loomis, Brinks, Garda, etc) for further distribution to banks and businesses. Those carriers have sorting rooms where they count, roll, and separate out duds. Prior to the QC changes, some carrier employees would gather errors and replace them with like coinage so the accounting would equal out. The employees would then sell the errors to coin dealers. There were no laws or regulations prohibiting this practice per say, but part of the new QC measures was the reworking of the carrier contracts to specifically state that all errors MUST be returned to the Mint under penalty of contract cancellation. That has enormously cut down the number of errors released into the wild and is one of the reasons why 21st century errors can be incredibly pricey compared to the same error dated a decade or two earlier.
Edited by biokemist6
09/09/2011 8:39 pm
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Maineman750's Avatar
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3592 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
He figured out how to scam the system.....that's surprizing.


He's no different than the rest of the government
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've seen 100 times more coverage about casino security than the Mint.
Or the checks against smuggling a raw diamond out of a deBeers-owned mine.
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cointagous's Avatar
United States
1143 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cointagous to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bingo Scubu!
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Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2011  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, just so I'm clear: Gray was clever enough to recognize the value of error coins, collect them, smuggle them out of the mint, find a fence,and actually collect the money. Then he went to his local credit union and made deposits .... What was he telling people? That he was working overtime? He probably would have gotten away with it if he spread them around more and then used the money to buy other coins.
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