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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,062 |
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New Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Hi from England - my son has just found a 1673 Carolus II silver crown hidden away in a box of second hand tools he recently bought.
BUT the face of the coin has been over stamped with "April 19, R+M 1782". The over stamp looks very professionally done with a die and is clear and sharp. My guess is the "R+M" refers to Robert Morris setting up the first American Mint in 1782 ?
Any ideas just what this "April 19, R+M 1782" stamped on the face of the coin is all about much appreciated. Best Wishes, Adrian.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
April 19, 1782 - The Dutch recognize the independence of the United States of America as a result of negotiations conducted in the Netherlands by John Adams.
In Australia, old coins with cryptic overwriting are often described as "love tokens". There was a major exhibition at the Tasmanian Museum a few years ago, and at least one book on the subject.
If you don't find anything more concrete, you might have to content yourself with a stab-in-the-dark such as:
on said date, R&M, pledged their troth, professed their true love, and/or got married; or maybe -
on said date, twins, R&M, were born.
And, of course, you can replace R&M with any names that seem to fit.
Edited by Forum Mom to fix "are" to are due to automatic correction.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
 Can you post a pic or scan. Could be a counter stamp or a love token |
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New Member
 United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Thanks for the replies guys, so it might possibly be a piece that has been engraved to commemorate a marriage?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I would definatly call this a "love token". Shame because it is a reasonable crown. Love does hurt especialy to coins  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
It may have been given to wedding guests, simillar to the way a small bag of candied nuts are placed at the guests tables in recent weddings. A nice gesture but what a waste of a nice coin  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
To each his own. I like old defaced coins (chop marks, counter strikes, love tokens, apprentice pieces, trench art, jewelry mounts, bronze coins with a hidden compartment to hide gold coins etc). As long as the coin isn't super rare/high grade and the defacement was contemporary (not some modern damage) then fine by me, it adds history/character. I only see red when I see old coins ruined by modern stupidity (elongated coins etc)
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
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Moderator
 Australia
16826 Posts |
The date and initials have been added by engraving, not by counterstamping. Quote:
I only see red when I see old coins ruined by modern stupidity (elongated coins etc) Curiously, that did actually happen to this coin. Look at the dates: the engraving was added over a hundred years after the coin was struck. It seems to be in relatively good condition, so it hadn't been kicking around in circulation for a hundred years beforehand; it might have been a family heirloom, or even part of a coin collection, before the engraving was applied. Either way, it's a very expensive memento. Most love tokens were done of copper pennies or halfpennies. I'd agree a marriage is the most likely event to generate such a piece, though the lack of a surname or any indication of locality means tracking down who "R+M" were will now be impossible. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Yeah - the coin is in quite good condition - picture of the back below. As an apprentice with Honda my son is keen to sell his windfall - a coin dealer in London said they thought it was worth about £100, but they would not buy it. Is ebay as good as anywhere? I'm an Aussie living in St Albans (near London, UK) and when the movie ‘Titanic' came out I got the location of the wreck from the web site of a guy in Adelaide. As a 747 Captain with British Airways I always plotted the location on our map when crossing the Atlantic. One day the hostess bought up to the flight deck a lovely old lady called Mrs Millvina Dean, who at 9 weeks old was the youngest survivor of the Titanic sinking. She was with her Mum, but her Father died when the ship went down. Due to our unusual track that day she was able to look down on a beautiful calm sea sparkling in the afternoon sun from the cockpit of the 747 right past the wreck site - all thanks to the guy in Adelaide. Thanks again for all your help from afar, much appreciated - ya gotta love this internet thingy!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
Adrian, I'm local to you (Hemel Hempstead) and I have to say that you don't stand much chance with the dealers in our area. I can't tell you if £100 is good value or not, but I do know that prices for quality coins on ebay.uk are down considerably at the moment. Bob
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I would put it up on ebay as your son really doesn't want it anyway. Without the engraving this would grade fine or a bit better. These are worth about 100 quid in fine. Whatever your son gets for it on ebay will be a win anyway because he got it for free. A collector would then get the opportunity to add this to their collection. It's all Win Win  |
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New Member
United States
16 Posts |
And just to rub salt into the wound, you'll find this is a 1673/2 lol. Value without the engraving around £200-£250. Don't ya just love it. A couple of other things to mention here is that the "R" in REX has had an adjustment and also although I'm not 100% certain as this in an "unrecorded" error, but I reckon the E in "ET" is an E over F. I say unrecorded in the terms as it hasn't been verified by a numismatical group, but other persons have mentioned it's existance. You'll notice an E doesn't have such a pronounced indentation in the foot as an F,actually by quite a large amount. The E in ET on this coin most definately has the foot of an F. Easily corrected with an overstamp to add the bottom bar, but would still leave the larger "F" style indent. Perhaps someone in the past had noticed this, hence the reason it was put aside. Would quite happily have paid £200 for that coin. shame. Edited by petesabout
10/03/2011 1:24 pm
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New Member
United States
16 Posts |
Next you'll be telling us the edge inscription says... QVARTO!
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,062 |
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Posted 09/29/2011 9:49 pm
