Portrait 8 Reales Edge Circle - Rectangle Question

Circles are circles, as Jfransh mentioned. The octagons in Bob's drawing are probably the product of whatever software he used to draw the circles.

There's also one edge with a flower-rectangle design found on the 1812-1813 Guadalajara Mint 8 Reales. It looks like this:

Larryh86GT Welcome to the forum and the word of counterfeit 8Rs.

First of all - the drawing is not being interpreted correctly if you see octagons. I suspect that is a function of the number of pixels on the viewing screen as TwoKopeiki suggested. All small circles appear as irregular polygons when viewed at a pixel level on any digital picture.

But to clear it up - THE STANDARD EDGE DESIGN IS A CIRCLE both INSIDE AND OUT. Variations from a true circle are seen only on forgeries and a limited number of the "crude" die issues.

But remember for every rule there are "possible exceptions" as TwoKopeiki illustrates with his "flower" variety. In this case, some of the war time 8Rs were made under very stressful situations without access to all of the correct punch blocks used to cast the punches needed to make dies. This means that SOME originals issued during the War do have crude edges. BUT as a general rule of thumb the design was based on a TRUE circle.

This is why even Calbetto put a disclaimer in his book regarding the "crude" varieties issued during the War. He was not sure that all of the coins he listed as Real were in fact real and that not all of the counterfeits he listed were fakes either. Some are real BUT MANY MORE of these odd crude varieties are counterfeits made for use overseas. These bullion forgeries are the full weight silver types and many collectors and dealers see them as "real".

The War time issues were easiest to FAKE because you could get away with much poorer die work. The 1821 Zs 8R is the MOST COMMONLY FAKED 8R ever made. That is why in most cases War issues need to be viewed with a great deal of suspicion and evaluated far more carefully. In my own collection, I have many examples that I classify as 1) Uncertain, 2) Probably Real and 3) Probably counterfeit.

I know absolute certainty is what we all desire but the War issues are a challenge.

But to flash back for a second. The flower edge illustrated here is a great example of how someone with only straight line cutting tools can cut a "circle" pattern for an edge die. What I see on this edge is a hand made edge punch - probably made with a thin blade saw that was used to make a punch to make edge dies a couple segments at a time.

Sorry for any confusion the drawings caused but I still use a primitive software to make drawings.

Larryh86GT If you like the series GO FOR IT.

But there is one caution expressed very briefly by Aaron Feldman's famous quote:




Feldman was a NYC dealer in the 1950's and his quote is even more critical today. BEFORE you start spending money on coins - invest in reading books about what you want to buy. You don't have to buy every book just educate yourself before spending money that you can not afford to lose.

I am still treating this as a hobby. After all I buy fake coins. There is little room for appreciation in value with the exception of the very old forgeries, but I buy from all eras - which is something most counterfeit collectors do not do. I am now and have always been more interested in learning about how forgeries are made than in making money.

For a price guide + picture regarding spanish colonial coin, I like Calico very much.
There is also the one in two volumes from Cayon - Las Monedas Espanolas
Those books are expensive (and huge) though.
Then you have other books specialized on some series (Gilboy for pillars for example - or gold - or cobs with the book from Mr Sedwick or Calbeto & Menzel) - it depends what you are collecting.
You can also check Krause which is more "general" and has prices in dollars (but those are often not that accurate - they give a general idea though) : http://www.krausebooks.com/category...-coins-books

You could also some versions on the internet (Calico old edition, and Krause latest as well) ... won't give hints on this though, you are on your own ;)

Buy the books first. You are cheating yourself if you buy coins before you do the research. Plus in some cases you may have to start looking now to find the book at all. Try finding a copy of the Gilboy book for sale, there were only 500 made and they are very difficult to find. There will always be coins out there to buy, take your time and learn. The 8 reales coin series is a lifelong journey unlike collecting lincoln pennies where all you need is a checkbook.

Actually I am trying to do just what you ask. But getting someone to print it will be difficult. Most publishers want essentially just the pictures with no real emphasis on text. But I am doing the text anyway even if I end up just running of xerox copies.