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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,915 |
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New Member
Philippines
6 Posts |
Hello to All. I believe I have been beaten by a Morg bug. My first ever. It reminds me when I first sat down to work on my first Lincoln. The pleasure and the countless enjoyable hours of looking over each coin. When a machine strike was then a double die! Anyway my first Morgan is a 1887P. Date is in normal position but I can see some doubling on all the numerals. No. 1 is obvious. The first and second 8 shows certain remnants. Is the 7/7/6? I think it is a VAM 12 with the Alligators eye, doubling of Liberty, Clash of the ST. However, the doubling is not limited to these but I can also see certain doublings on the ear, E PLuribus Unum, Phrygian cap, profile etc. It also has a mini Hot Lips. The reverse might be a Shifted Eagle which I will post later on. Am I right to say it is a Vam12? I am sorry I can not give better pics because my QX5 just gave out on me. I will try to have it repaired. Your comments please. Thank you.        |
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New Member
 Philippines
6 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
It's not VAM-12; the signature Alligator Eye is not present. I see what could be the clashed "st," but coins with clashed "st" should also have the characteristic straight-line wing clash extending from the neck, which is usually the first and strongest clash feature. So, I'm left wondering. The date can be classified as "near," which will help narrow down the possibilities, as will the fact that the reverse does not appear to show clashing. Beyond that, I see no "smoking gun" features of any specific 1887-P VAM; this one's going to be a difficult attribution. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
The BUG has a learning curve, learning what is and what is not doubling, YOU have great pic's, which make this even easier to distinguish..AND  to the forum...this is an example of true doubling..  notice the wreath in particular is quite defined and separated, this is true doubling at its best, sometimes its not so profound yet still a doubling, yet within your pictures I can only see the shine from the bottom of the lettering that could make you think this is doubling,,,,I agree with SD its not a VAM 12 as the eye has no definite doubling one would expect to jump right out at you..I think the dates in the normal position, but its no biggie,,as there are no real smoking guns, obvious clashing's ect to track down.. Most to me look like simple PMD post mint damage...it would be a good Idea go pop on over to VAM World as they have an excellent VAM attributions 101 guide online, it goes over all the basic details of what is and what is not...doubling is possibly the FIRST and most important trait of vamming one should understand and know with out a doubt...is it doubled or shelf doubling or not at all...Its takes sometime to get it all worked out, but your on the right path, and your pictures REALLY make it easy to see what you have, most have pics that its hard to figure out unless I put it up on my 42 inc screen to see the details, VAM-ON...lets see another full pic of the obverse like you have the reverse, its a much better picture...  |
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New Member
Philippines
6 Posts |
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New Member
Philippines
6 Posts |
Here is another photo of the reverse.  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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New Member
Philippines
6 Posts |
I am posting a photo of a die chip in the nostril for any significance. Yes SuperDave I have read your What is... and that is the reason I posted what looked similar like the last picture in your write up (very informative reading/learning material).minus the B images,though. While trying to get a better picture of those two lines I noticed a leaf-like image. What is this? Also, is it possible that the reverse die be much older than that of the obverse? I am asking this because the reverse is full of pittings vs the obverse. Thanks     |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
As SD noted those are all post mint damage from being banged around in circulation...I questioned whether this could be a slant date, yet of those I found yours has a different date placement than the vam26,, so its not VAM 26,,,my suggestion would be search the VAM 1 listings as you have the coin in hand...research them to find might be there you can see, as we can not see from your photo's...if you find something from those listings you can post some close up pictures that can confirm what you find....And while we have all gone through the I found a scratch or gouge or pimple,is going at it backwards... The proper procedure for analyzing the coin is DATE Placement, Mint Mark placement , which will start the beginning of the process....Next you can look for clashing and Letter transfers and doubling to further the analysis... In every situation one must look at the "entire years" known VAM population while trying to figure it out.. so its not just on coin you will be learning, this is because while you learn the basics....this will not be the only 1887 coin you will come across many have those extra bells and whistles.... While your traveling you will come to know what the common vams are so you don't overspend cash on a coin with all the bells and whistles when its a very common coin... thats part of the learning curve...knowing what to collect Many here know of high dollar vams, but My advise is to collect what is your fancy...not for the money but what you like and what you want to collect...if its common but cool..I like them too....all collections of every type have there own ins and outs..so enjoy it for how it pleases you. not someone else....many here are glad to help you out. so enjoy..Gene |
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New Member
Philippines
6 Posts |
Nice piece of advise Gene. Thanks. I collect coins on the basis of what I believe will make me happy. I am not into this to make money but for the thrill and excitement of finding something that pleases me. I have put in a lot into Lincolns and AGEs but I don't intend to sell them not now or even later. I have set them aside for when I have kids of my own they can sell them or continue with this wonderful hobby. What I really need now is a good magnifying device plus more more learnings. No way can I VAM seriously without them. My QX5 has broke down and sometimes it give me some fuzzy pics. I have seen some pretty devices in the Photo section. Thanks once more guys. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
As Dave has noted that QX5 sure has some great picture capabillities,,,,you have nothing but time, to learn and gather advice! take care...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I haven't seen any slight, or shelf doubling, or doubling, in these photo's, The lower ear is a possibility, but I will say, many times the lighting, can highlight the bottom of the lettering and other features an appear to have some kind of doubling,,,It's all good, and a good learning experience we all have to learn to see what true doubling is on the
Morgan series is....ANY thinking of doubling is the wrong approach to Vamming,, one must begin...At the beginning..Date and its placement, Mint Mark if one has one and its placement..With this in mind, one can narrow your search, rather than GUESS at the 100 posted vams for a particular year, some have extremely less numbers,
but for THE VAMMING PRINCIPLES
Vamming,,,Start smart, and view the basic details that will channel you to the appropriate avenue...My meaning is simple, IF you have a normal date placement...you can EXCLUDE all near dates, far dates and slant dates...Which will severely limit your choices to search...THATS WONDERFULL...You don't have to search every possibility....
only the ones that are within your parameters...
Now you have lowered your research potentials...GO seek the few left for your understanding...
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,915 |
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Posted 10/09/2011 12:11 pm
