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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,237 |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
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Valued Member
Poland
392 Posts |
I don't know a thing about silver reales but Sud Oaxaca coin from 1812 is defenitely a cast. DagonX  |
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Pillar of the Community
 France
1591 Posts |
From what I remember reading, they were casting coins during this era. But that one for sure has an odd look.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
I wouldn't touch the first of the two Carlos y Johanna coins with a ten foot glove. The design images look warped. This is my example of the 2 reales. I don't think I have any pictures of my 4. Yet.   Edited by ElleKitty
10/09/2011 10:04 am
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Here is my 4 reales from Mexico. Oh, and now that I'm at it, the corresponding 2reales and 1 real :) Maybe it's just the sea-salvaged look of the coin that I feel is odd ... The first was sold for a low price for a such coin, those early ones are really scarce.    Edited by MathieuMa
10/09/2011 1:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
ElleKitty, yours is a complete different design than the piece in the first link (which is "Early Style"), hence the different overall look. Nevertheless, beyond the appearance of the surfaces, which I think should be suspect on their own... see below. The first piece was on ebay a while back, and I was sure it was fake. I actually only saved the pic b/c so many of the C&J pieces are sea-salvage that it could be useful to have the pic on file. This second one allows for nice, idiot-proof confirmation. I think he's 5-for-5, incl. the other Late Style C&J:  Edited by realeswatcher
10/09/2011 4:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
Yes. Both of my coins from this era are the Late Series of Pillar Cob with waves, as are the coins shown by MathieuMa. Separated by only a few years, there are identifiable differences, but the design aspects remain mostly the same.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Checked my Calico, the design of the coin seems to be off ... as well as the price. I'll report those to ebay, I'll leave the gold coin alone although I suspect it's a fake as well. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
You are all seeing the pic, yes? Identical "twins" of the exact same "Early Series" C&J fake 4R?
The piece IS crude in terms of style/design elements... but I think that can be chalked up mainly to what the Early Series is like in general. I would gather that this fake was cast from an actual authentic piece - to me, nothing looks terribly "off", or hand-engraved... They simply aren't very high quality in terms of the finished product (tell-tale mushy, micro-porous surfaces).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I do not believe I know the seller involved, but I have a mixed opinion on what he is selling. It may be that all are fakes but I do not believe ebay would ever cancel the auctions because all I really have are educated "guesses" because I do not have the coin in hand. So unless you can convince the seller that he is selling fake coins and he admits that possibility to ebay it is UNLIKELY they will act. I definitely agree with you that most of what I see look like cast copies. The 4R that sold for $375 (the first listed) is clearly a copied die - it is TOO CRUDE to be real in my opinion. I see no similarly crude dies in Cayon nor in my files. The second 4R looks like a bad cast copy of a real coin. The two silver SUDs are hideous modern fantasy copies (but they sell on ebay all the time). I own several similar copies if anyone wants one for $300. The 1915 Peso may possibly be real, but some excellent fakes of this particular coin have been made, so I would not guarantee that it is real. But someone made what is to me the obvious comment - these coins are simply TOO DARNED HIGH IN PRICE even if they are real.  I would simply avoid this batch.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Regarding price, that isn't true on the Early Series 4R... which explains why it tempted someone so quickly at that price. A piece like that probably should bring (a genuine piece, that is) double what it sold for.
The specimen the seller sold (the one with the scratches under PLVS, the bottom piece in the comparison pic I linked) along with its previously seen "twin" confirms it as a fake without any doubt or other analysis needed. But like you intimated, crudeness/production quality (or lack thereof) of one OR the other taken alone really should be enough to warn away someone in the market for a bigger-ticket piece like this.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
"I would simply avoid this batch."
That sums it up... And concerning that 1915 Peso - if you judge by the company it's keeping...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
realeswatcher I just checked my reference and I would agree on the specific example sold first the catalog value is higher than the price quoted by a significant margin. I had not checked the price earlier and was not aware of the premium attached to that specific issue. But it still looks awful compared to an original of the type. And I love the side by side comparison which is an Idiot Proof way of proving the coin is fake. Coin damage is like fingerprints - original damage patterns are not duplicated. But you can certainly see the value of copying the ebay pictures.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
"And I love the side by side comparison which is an Idiot Proof way of proving the coin is fake. Coin damage is like fingerprints - original damage patterns are not duplicated." Note the shape of the two specimens... "But it still looks awful compared to an original of the type." EH... that's basically true, but this one CAN be sort of dangerous, and it takes series-specific knowledge to realize why. A good portion of the extant Early-Series Carlos y Juana coinage comes from one of several wrecks of the early 1550s (Padre Island, several near the DR, etc.). So, for someone with SOME knowledge who is aware of that fact, that person could be roped into thinking "Well, the surfaces are porous and soft-looking, but that's probably just pitting from the sea-corrosion, and maybe it was cleaned somewhat improperly... so it's probably legit". Remember the lure of that price, not dirt cheap, but still a significant discount) could be a powerful lure... Also concerning price... his ask for that Late Series 4R is overly optimistic, but not really super crazy enough to absolutely scare everyone off. And again, it's totally conceivable that someone would chalk the surfaces up to sea-salvage. Now THIS seller, on the other hand... LOL, he's goin' for the end zone: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HISPAN-COIN...180735465000Edited by realeswatcher
10/10/2011 3:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
"But you can certainly see the value of copying the ebay pictures." Absolutely, because telling some seller "Hey, your $400 coin is fake... look at the surfaces, that proves it!"... as I'm sure you know well, can be, um, challenging. In this case, the comparison pic proves it concisely and conclusively unless you cover your eyes. |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Here is the answer from the seller, didn't wrote my answer yet : hello, thx 4 your email. I got 1 yesterday from ebayer (Ilikemacuquinas) and he told me the same thing, I'm not expert on this field of course, but he is going to tell me if the one on auction is a fake in that case, I'll do the changes on ebay (price and description). In your opinion why do you think the one on sale is fake? is not that I do not believe you ,but is that I do not have a clue what to look for. I really,really appreciate your time and expertise. please let me know and Ido the changes ASAP. NEIL0208 |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,237 |
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Posted 10/09/2011 09:17 am
