1909-S VDB Acquistion. Concern About Authenticity

The coin itself does look authentic and its in pretty good condition. Not sure about the cleaning since the picture is not clear enough. But even if it is cleaned its still a nice coin.

I submitted pics to The Black Cabinet and got a very quick response. Here is what they had to say;
Thanks for emailing in. :-)


Where I cannot certify that it is inauthentic unless it's sent in for me to physically examine (and I could have it back to you a few days after it arrives) from these pictures, this coin is very likely to be counterfeit.


The mint mark -- although it's very similar -- when it is lined up it in overlay does not match any of the four known mint mark locations for the 1909-S VDB. It is about one serif's width south of where it should be. Also, with the level of detail preserved on the reverse, the VDB shouldn't be that shallow and hard to make out.


What may be more easily telling I think (even though I am not able to completely see it in the photographs) is there also appear to be casting artifacts on this piece. There is a prominent dot to the left of 1909, and several "pimples" on Lincoln's brow. These are not known die markers for 1909-S VDBs, but are very common on cast fakes (they represent small chinks in the casting medium that were filled in by molten metal). Again, if I had this physically in front of me I could confirm it under the microscope in a matter of moments.


All in all, from what I can see in these pictures, I'd say that this has a ~80-90% chance of being a fake (albeit a good one), which is a high enough probability that recouping what you paid for it and putting that towards a certified specimen is probably the most prudent route to take.


My honest opinion is that (provided my observations are correct) whoever manufactured this, cherry-picked a 1909-S obverse that had a convincing mint mark location and then used a regular 1909 VDB reverse as the two sides of the mold. This would explain both why the details are flat with "zits" and why the VDB is weak (because casting mediums can only be made so fine). They probably even melted down contemporary pennies to get the alloy correct, which is trivial.
Thanks, Steve for suggesting this service. This saved me a lot of shipping and insurance costs.

The results have been posted to The Black Cabinet:

http://fakes.numismetrica.com/2012/...-1909s-0001/

The pictures are so tiny, it's hard to say with 100% confidence if it's authentic or not. One important thing nobody mentioned so far is the die chip in the upper loop of the MM.....all SVDB's have this....impossible to tell from the pictures. I've seen a total of one fake ever attempt to copy that and it was a joke of a failure.

Get in the car and go visit a couple of coin dealers. Most of them are very well versed in the proper ID of these. It's the most faked coin I know of and it's pretty easy to spot a fake in person.

Personally, for the OP, I'd send it back. I've said it 1000 times and I'll say it 1000 more...LOLOL....this is an important coin in any collection. Only buy one in person! In the end, it's all about how you like the look of it. Don't just chase a deal and don't buy raw unless you can ID a fake. These are ABUNDANT on the market and easy to obtain....but you want to make sure you obtain the right one.

Badthad,

Magnificent! :-)

I would like to amend one of my last statements. Eye appeal is critical in this case. I will probably crack it out of the case anyway so I can put it with the set my dad gave me. If I find a details coin that meets that criteria, then there is no reason not to consider it.
There are too many cases where you see nice pics of the slab with this little brown spot in the middle. I want to see the coin!
As so many people have said in the past, it's the coin, stupid.

Save just a bit more and get an XF. You're too close not too. Slow pressure makes diamonds. Hold out.