Bottom line imo, ebay handled the announcement poorly. They should have clarified about how they are looking forward to working with other grading companies to bring them up to their standards as a reputable grader. Once again, ebay rushes out an announcement and causes problems that could have been avoided with some clarification.
vermontensium most fake slabs may be pcgs or ngc, but if you cross check the numbers on the slab with the website you can easily find that out before a purchase without having to call anacs about every coin to confirm it is real
Kinda figured this would be the catalyst to light to a fire under ANACS for a public available S/N certification database. And the window of opportunity to get this in action is a little over a month away. This should be plenty of time to get what ANACS has been "working on" for a good number of years finalized, although not without it's bugs initially. I wonder how far back they have been keeping records (older small white holders that I really like)? Or are they going to send out a blanket request for current holders of ANACS slabs to submit their info?
Well per ANACS's announcement, they should have online cert verification soon. Should have done this a long time ago. ebay better take them back or ANACS should nail them with a lawsuit.
It appears there is only one item that is leaving ANACS out because of the ebay revised coin policy: Enable online verification of unique serial numbers! Per ANACS, they do offer verification of unique serial numbers, but has not made that service available online as of yet, and ANACS is in the final stages of making serial number verification available on our web platform. Sounds like the ANACS web guys are going to be working many hours of OT to get this done
OK, WHO set down those requirements? John Albanese did. In every statement made by the company and their reps he is the expert they cosulted. If you dont see the clear collusion here, you are either shoving your head in the sand or just dont want to.
Albanese owns CAC. The company who grades the grades of PCGS and NGC ONLY. He founded those two companies (which makes the value of those stupid green beans all based on opinions of those who want to perpetuate PCGS and NGC as "the best"). So who stands to gain here the most? Albanese. And if you think for half a second ebay doesn't see the profit in it for them, watch this...
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Take note of when he says the dealers will be able to sell their coinsat higher price points.
Yes, there is no doubt some improvement was needed in some policies. However, they already had a restriction about puting grades in your listing title. Thats what kept people from listing graded from SCS and the like. But dont give the sanctimonious bull that this is a good thing because it protects buyers blah blah blah. It was done in this manner purely due to money and no other reason. All the rest is the fire and brimstone to distract from the man behind the curtain.
And as has been pointed, online registry check is something ANACS has been setting up anyway. That requirement is not a bad thing, but again, it was at the behest and guidance of Albanese. I guarantee ebay did not just approach him out of the blue. He is like John Horner (if you know fossils at all, you know what I am talking about). If a camera is around and an opinion wanted, magically he is there... at someone else request for an expert of course. *snort*
Jbuck, thanks for linking back to my thread. Saved me doing it. LOL
I just do not see how ebay benefits in any way shape or form from colluding to try and push pcgs and ngc. They make far more money off of selling more coins from all slabs than they would from getting a slightly higher pcgs or ngc coin price.
All the new policy really does by forcing the companies to have an online database of their coins is protect ebay from having to dish out cash from fraud claims. Even if an ANACS coin goes out in a fake holder now since ebay is selling it as a raw coin as long as the coin is real the buyer has no recourse for overpaying for an inflated fake grade.
The only way you could really say collusion is happening is if IGC and ANACS get their websites up and running and ebay still refuses them. I doubt that would happen though and suspect as soon as they have an online cert program that proves their holders on ebay are real they will be added to ebays accepted list.
It may be true that someone with close ties to PCGS and NGC gave them the guidelines, but that doesn't in itself mean there was any collusion in the process. The only grading requirement that IGC and ANACS do not seem to meet (and can rectify if they want too) is the online cert. Really for the format in which the coins are being sold I have to say I agree 100 percent that to ensure the coins are what they claim to be there needs to be a simple way to check them without every interested party having to call the grading company to confirm it.
Let this play out a little bit, I would guess at least ANACS will have their website up within a month and we will all be better off for it
Ya, I read ANACS Response to ebay's April 17 Announcement, Sounds like ANACS was not aware...that's not good/fair on ebay's part.
''' In its email to sellers of coins, ebay mentions "certain objective standards" that are required of coin grading companies. We were not made aware of these standards until April 17th -- the very same day that ebay chose to notify its sellers of the change.'''
I would rather buy ANACS coin over NGC.
NGC is becoming an assembly line grading factory...I am not even sure if they really look that well at the newer coins from US mint/proof sets & rolls; it's probaly just a robot putting newer coins from US mint/proof sets & rolls into slabs. With all the NGC proof sets out there for sale, they have must a huge staff of workers or a few a robots doing the work. Sure is funny how % of US proof set coins make 70 grade vs PCGS
basebal, they benefit due to higher prices charged by sellers with PCGS and NGC coins, just as the pres of ebay says in the clip. Plus whatever kick back they get. I am not a big conspiracy guy, but when its just this obvious, I have to point at the curtain.
ebay is NOT losing that much money over graded coins from ANACS and ICG. For that matter, they stand to lose MORE money by trying to force me to offer a 14 day return guarantee. I sell a roll of junk Kennedy halves and 12 days later silver does a two day tank and some *** unacceptable *** forces me to take them back...yeah, not happening.
That aside, lets say I am completely Oliver Stone here. The way in which ebay has done this is atrocious. AND points back to collusion. They consult the father of PCGS and NGC, yet NOTHING is said to ANACS or ICG until the decision is made. Huh, wonder why? It is at the very least really really really bad business. As I told the guy on the phone, only reason I am still on ebay right now is there is no other real alternative.
Ohohohohohohohoh, just thought of something. IF the online lookup was SOOOOOOOOOOOO vastly important to detering fakes, then why has Heritage not kicked ANACS to the curb? I mean Heritage is after all the top online coin auction house. You would think that if this was such an issue, they would have done the same. AND Heritage ownership also owns a portion of NGC, yet they still honor ANACS coins.
But the higher prices from pcgs and ngc are more than offset by the loss of the premiums for a grade on ngc anacs coins. Theres currently 6000+ anacs listings and over 60k ngc listings on ebay. If every coin were to sell for only 10 dollars which is an extreme low ball theyd be losing out on almost 70k from active listings alone.
Plus you can still sell those coins and people can still see the grades on the holders and bid according to the holder grade if they want to, ebay is just off the hook for the protection if the coin is real and the holder is false.
Just because you consult someone with ties to those companies does not mean collusion is happening without further evidence. The requirements of the companies are all very reasonable and the only thing most do not meet is the online cert. The online cert is just a very simple way to give buyers extra protection and I am not sure why Anacs or IGC has not done that yet. They obviously have a list somewhere or some way to check if you can call and ask about slabs.
As far as heritage goes I think theres a very reasonable explanation for that. Its simply demographics. Far more people use ebay and know of ebay than heritage. Heritage attracts more of the coin collectors and less of the riff raft looking to make a quick buck any way possible. I would venture to guess the fraud on ebay is at least 10 times greater if not more. Heritage also probably has in house experts that can find frauds considering what they deal with where ebay doesn't have experts for all the different categories and is nothing more than a platform where anyone can list anything they want with no review unless its being reported. A platform like ebay has to be more careful and more than likely the only reason they bothered to take any action at all is because of the amount they lost dealing with buyer protection cases or the amount of time theyve had to deal with them.
Had they only said we will only allow grade listings for ngc pcgs no matter what I would agree with you, but instead they left the door open laying out standards that have to be met and arent even subjective standards. Once the ANACS website is up and running (assuming it works properly) if they then still refuse to allow them then you can say that something more is going on here. More than likely however once the website is up theyll be moved in the ngc pcgs territory and treated the same.
I also agree that the 14 day return policy is absurd, imagine going to a dealers shop and trying to return a dozen gold eagles 13 days after their sale when the price has dropped $200 per coins lol.
The Canadian TPG's are the real ones in trouble here. It should be noted that ICCS which is by most regards the leading grader of Canadian coins doesn't even have a website let alone a certification number look up system.
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Posted 04/18/2012 4:56 pm
NGC is becoming an assembly line grading factory...I am not even sure if they really look that well at the newer coins from US mint/proof sets & rolls; 
it's probaly just a robot putting newer coins from US mint/proof sets & rolls into slabs. With all the NGC proof sets out there for sale, they have must a huge staff of workers or a few a robots doing the work. 
Sure is funny how % of US proof set coins make 70 grade vs PCGS 
