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 Replies: 17 / Views: 4,729 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1002 Posts |
From the 2012 RCM annual report:"Using digital non-destructive activation technology (DNA),
we began embedding unique ‘fingerprints' in Canada's
highest-value one-dollar and two-dollar circulation coins
along with virtual imaging and laser marking features.
The fingerprinting allows individual coins to be traced and
authenticated via a comprehensive database."I get the laser marking but does anyone know what the DNA process is? Does each individual coin have its own specific identifying marker?
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Valued Member
Canada
286 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
if I understand it correctly they are etching microscopic symbols/architexture onto the dies which translates into a hexidecimal code that can be scanned & used to authenticate a coin.
google "digital non-destructive activation technology" and download the powerpoint file from the 2011 berlin world money fair.
Edited by Wade
05/04/2013 01:57 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1002 Posts |
Wade> Thanks for the guidance to the powerpoint.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
It wasn't clear from the PP if the signature is on each coin but the quote from the Mint seems to indicate that it is.
"The fingerprinting allows individual coins to be traced and
authenticated via a comprehensive database".
This is very interesting. I wonder if law enforcement could use that technology to trace the movement of money or people...
I think this might be extremely useful to coin collectors in the near future. How cool would it be to know the signature of the coins in your collection especially if they were ever stolen and recovered.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
the new toonies and loonies are tarnishing severely after only a few months service, I wonder how their DNA etchings can be seen after a few months of service.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I can't see anything done to a die which is at the same time small enough to not be easily visible, lasting more than a few strikes. Whatever the process, it has to be post-strike. I wonder - and it's sheer speculation because I don't know the technology well enough - if they're employing X-ray fluoroscopy to identify unique alloy variations over the face of the coin. If the sensor is fine enough, this may be possible. Heck, they may even be forcing changes like this by laser-heating specific places on the surface to make non-visible changes in surface composition.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
John100, I think they are a disgrace. The fact that the 2013 Proof and Specimen sets still use the old designs is telling. The mint obviously doesn't stand behind these new abominations, it was just a conservative cash grab. But of course, the public savings were enabled on the backs of private losses, as all coinop machines, parking meters, etc, had to be re calibrated at the owners expense.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9866 Posts |
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
The anti-counterfeiting features are already wearing off on my loonies, a shame. But - in the future, maybe these fragile maple leaves will serve as a grading waypoint, like the full steps on Jefferson nickels? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9866 Posts |
According to the article wear does not affect DNA identification.
How long before this technology is available to TPGs ?
Just think of the implications.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
05/12/2013 1:08 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
I think it infers an electromagnetic fingerprint in the coins themselves, so that vending machines, parking meters and other coin devices can detect that those coins are, in fact, legit.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9866 Posts |
Quote:From the Coin World article; ...reads the unique surface structure of every coin to create a unique digital "fingerprint" by using an algorithm. If the system were to be implemented, this data could be stored in a database and used to confirm the authenticity of every coin manufactured by the RCM even as the coin experiences normal wear during its life cycle. The RCM discussed the DNA process with industry professionals during the 2012 World Money Fair in Berlin. Hieu Truong, executive director of research and development at the RCM, spoke Feb. 2 about the technology during the technical forum. According to Truong, the DNA process reads or "gives" the coin a signature that has the uniqueness similar to cellular DNA so that, if the RCM desired, the coin could be traced to the die it was made from and the time and date it was made. Nothing unique is done to the coin to make it "readable" by the DNA process "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
I doubt the cost associated with a DNA reader and network access to a mint DB would make sense compared to the risk of a $1 or $2 loss at vending machines or parking meters.
But, having readers at some key points in the coin cycle (banks, parking and transit coin processing, etc.) would allow the Mint/BoC to detect counterfeits entering circulation at an early stage.
Edited by dialog_gvf
05/12/2013 9:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
So SPP, what would stop a criminal from copying that signature (of various coins) and transmitting it via an electrical device to the reader in the machine?
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
I imagine it all boils down to money. The main hinderance would be the profit margin. Counterfeiting of coins cannot be done that cheaply, if they have to look convincing, and to try and copy that signature as well...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 17 / Views: 4,729 |
Posted 05/04/2013 01:53 am
