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Old Coin Section Of Paris

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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2893 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also I believe they engage in market manipulation. E.g. they'll take a coin and list it in auction at 3x the standard price for the type. Maybe it'll sell to a friend and thus they'll establish a new baseline for the coin at a much higher price.


I doubt it - but reguardless, that's quite an assertion. I assume you have proof?
Valued Member
Gallienus's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comment regarding my Peruvian Coins. I've an interesting comment from a dealer on Peru, which I'll reproduce here.

"I was trying to tell you that almost all the appeal of early Rep Peru is as post-colonial type for Colonial collectors, who extend their collections into the mid-19th century because SOME of the first Republican issues (Mexico, CAR) are historical & aesthetically appealing. Alas, not so much for Peru. I know a Peruvian numismatist, and you can take it from me & Puente that collectors of early Rep Peru minor gold as such are rarer than the coinage. But some Colonial collectors take up the slack or nothing would sell."

Not only Peruvian gold minors but also many Peruvian coins are thought to be less sought after than many other countries. I have a strong collection in Peru but am also lacking that 1st Republican crown. This is known as "The Peso of San Martin" and was struck in 1822 and 23. I'm also looking for one of these but I can't list everything I'm looking for in this post.

Nice Cudinmarca 8R's. Yes I'm looking for one of these too. I missed buying one when a US collector told me that high grade specimens used to be quite common but one has to be careful of information. Restrepo, "Coins of Colombia", 2012, lists the same Indian Bust but Nueva Granada type as .600 fine and doesn't list a finess for your Indian Cundinamarcia type. Krause, 2002, lists both as .666 fine: which I think simply picked up the monedas feble finess which was .666 I've heard that this type was struck for a number of years beyond the stamped dates of 1820 and 1821. Since they "may have been" lower finess silver they remained in circulation for a long time and most specimens are quite worn.

I'd like to know what part these played in the commerce of the times but this information is very hard to come by.
Edited by Gallienus
07/16/2013 11:07 am
Valued Member
Gallienus's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I doubt it - but reguardless ... I assume you have proof?


Actually I don't think this assertion is too far fetched and possibly represents a difference in how coin firms do business in the US as opposed to Great Britain, or even other parts of the developed world: like France. I've always thought British firms more interested to maintaining good relations with even smaller collectors and US firms a little more oriented to making a fast buck. Of course there are always exceptions. British firms I've bought from include Spinks and C.J. Martin.

My comments regarding Harlan Burk stem from having bought at least 3 coins from them for approx $7,300. from around 1990 to 2011. In retrospect, I am not happy with their lack of communication from all of these transactions.

Please list your commercial transactions with them as a basis for your opinion.

Granted you may like them as they've helped you with research for your book and of course you can publically thank them for that: just as I can mention their lack of caring for my collector purchases from them.

Regarding market manipulation I have been after a particular type of coin for several years and have posted it on several want lists. Semi-decent examples have sold for $8,000 with a suberb example selling out of CNG for $16,500. In March of 2013 H.J. Burk listed a not particularly nice one for $29,500. Of course this could have been a $20,000 error. More recently Goldberg's sold a specimen around June 2013, possibly nicer than Burk's which realized $13,500. Of course I haven't seen the coin: just printed catalog photos.

A lot of flakey stuff goes on with US coins and US dealers. I actually think market manipulation of coin prices in the US is more common than you may think and is not illegal. Of course collectors trying to acquire a piece for their own collections, like myself don't like it, but higher prices help coin flippers make greater profits.
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United Kingdom
2893 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2013  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please list your commercial transactions with them as a basis for your opinion.


That's not going to happen.

As to the rest - I will admit that the two jurisdictions, US and the UK, have different coin markets. As we don't have coin grading (to any extent) that converting a coin into a profitable (?) commodity to be traded doesn't really happen. They are "just" coins. My dealings with HJB, however have only been with ancients so grading/slabbing/commodity issues didn't come into it.

I can only say - as you indicated - that my experience with them has been overwhelmingly positive and they have "went that extra mile" for me. Perhaps you were unlucky in your particular dealings - a disgruntled staff member perhaps.

Still, they are quite a big name on the dealership scene - if not the top of the premier league - then certainly "in" that league so I'm surprised that a firm in that position would want to offer anything but the best of services.


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