Ferdinand VII 4 Reales - Guadalajara - 1814 Mr

The coin is one I have seen before. In fact I own one made from a "similar" die pair. By that I mean made using the same elemental punches. Mine is beyond all doubts a fraudulent issue. It is underweight AND uses silver that is debased. I can find in early US mint reports that have survived no examples of 4 reales tested by the US mint that were so badly deficient. In fact, on the contrary mint reports seem to indicate that they never actually encountered a silver coin shipped directly to the mint from any6 Mexican branch mint that is as defective as mine.

So could mine be real? Perhaps but I wouldn't bet a fortune on it. Personally I think we are actually dealing with a well executed forgery. Early or late who knows but WRONG in any event.

Bob, this piece HAS to be old, no? The surfaces (despite the cleaning) still say "early". And I would think that a random off-denomination branch mint piece like this, IF counterfeit, would have to be from right around the time of the originals and not much later.

Mat, what does yours weigh?

In an interesting coincidence, came across this tonight from a certain nefarious seller out of Spain... I think I'd assume modern fake just from the processed-looking surfaces and the odd edge pattern (which has that flat look).

The 4R in the OP looks like an original Guadalajara issue to me. Planchets and dies were not the best quality in the early years. Die elements and the edge look fine. I've seen a number of examples of this particular die.