Old Coin Section Of Paris

Hi MathieuMa,

Yes, it was rue Vivinenne. The reason I went is that in 2004 I bought a 1793-BB 1 sol at auction which was labeled as authentic. This coin was instead an official replica. Patrick Guilliard looked at a photo of the piece in 2009 and pronounced it a restrike. Thus I returned it last week and after it's re-auctioned I should recover my funds or get another French piece of acceptable quality.

My friend Philippe Theret, a specialist in Union et Force 5F's, suggested I talk with CGB.fr, however they were very busy and the person I wanted to see didn't have time to talk. I didn't make an appoinment as money is tight for me & there's really nothing I could buy at this time. They have a denier of Charlemagne up for auction which is historically interesting but I feel bad about looking when I couldn't buy it.

I can agree completely with you about not slabbing pieces. However I do wish people would protect some of the AU and higher grade pieces in plastic flips.

I used to collect French coins but have put those on hold for now. I now specialize in the "crowns of the early Republics of Latin America" sort of like the CAR 8R's that you have as an avatar. I'm only semi-knowledgeable about these but am always looking to learn more.

Since you're from France I have a question for you I'll post separately.

As MathieuMa points out, the coin-collecting culture in France IS different from that of the US; however, MathieuMa has also noted quite rightly that these shops are mainly just bullion dealers, know almost nothing whatsoever about coins and how to handle them, and are no reflection of the kind of amazing coin shop experience you'd find in smaller cities. The shops around Rue Vivienne are not where French coin collectors (that I know) go to look for numismatic material: instead, these shops use the display windows (imagine the sun, moisture and air exposure those get all day, every day...) to advertise the fact that they deal in precious metals. I've had absurdly comical interactions with some of these shopkeepers in my effort to find actual dealers of numismatic items. There are two notable exceptions regarding that part of the city, but I don't want to appear to be promoting specific shops. In both cases, they had fantastic MS -grade material that was properly handled and stored in appropriate holders or leuchtturm capsules. One of them even showed me his growing stock of PCGS-slabbed coins, and went so far as to suggest that slabbing was gaining in popularity among collectors and dealers in Europe. (He had an ms-65 1895 2FR that was absolutely incredible.)

The best coin shops are outside Paris in smaller regional cities, or are the guys you'll find at one of the coin shows. Sometimes you can find stuff at "Brocantes", flea-markets. I've always wondered if Paris is like Madrid, where on Sunday mornings each week the (old men) dealers come out to one of the main squares in the capital and set up they're books and bins (I saw some great, great material there last year). If there is such an occasion in Paris I haven't found it. MathieuMa, you've GOT to go check out their stuff!

Last year I attended an international coin show in Berlin, and about 10 or so(?) French dealers were there; in France itself the coin conventions are in the smaller cities, perhaps about once a year.

Anyway, all that to make the case that Paris is not a great coin-traveler's destination. Fortunately, they have one or two other claims to fame that, though not coin-related per se, might entice one to visit... ;)

And the mintmark is K, Bordeaux, on the bottom of the obverse, in the center.

Lovely Henri III coin - I have quite a lot of post-Revolution French coins, but very few from the Ancien Regime.

I agree what everyone's said about the Rue Vivienne - there are a couple of good dealers there among all the bullion merchants. I do like window-shopping there when in Paris, and once got a Napoleon I 5 franc coin there in around VG for 20 euros which was only a little over bullion value at the time. I like having a big silver coin with Napoleon's portrait on the obverse!

In Lyon, two hours south of Paris on the TGV train, they always used to have a stamp and coin market on Sunday mornings in the Place Bellecour. Not been there for years so no idea what it's like these days, but I did sometimes pick up a few coins there.

I do love the big 5 franc Ceres crowns, and I don't have any in Unc like yours: I'm (c)eriously green with envy. My only Ceres Ecu claim to pride is possession of a couple IInd Republic off-mints in XF/AU grades that are harder to find; nothing on the level of rarity of yours tho'! I've had more success collecting in the Ceres 1 and 2 francs of the II and IIIrd Republic.

I'm not too surprised by what you report from showing pics of your coins to some of the Vivienne gang, at one point I hit the street with a beautiful Napoleon III 1 franc that was a rare variety in high grade, most of the dealers I showed it to--if they figured out what it was at all--poo-pooed it... just before offering a low-ball price. Only a few of them made a sensible offer, including both the CGB people--though yes, some of the guys working the window seem to be in an eternally bad mood--and a fellow who runs a nice little shop a street west of Vivienne with whom I've done business a number of times.

Sounds like you had a fantastic trip, seeing some of the nicest places in the country. When in Cannes, I hope you gave your wife a star turn on the famous red carpet!

Christian: I visited the Paris Mint's small museum--hey, it was free after all!--a few years ago, and even though it was still a bit of a site 'under construction' (un vrai chantier!) it was great fun. The MetalMorphose sounds very interesting indeed, thanks for the link.

MathieuMa: The CGB guys are the ones I've used for a few higher-value items they put on consignment sale for me. I've bought from them too; they have plenty of stock, but you have to ask for specific things to see and they show them to you one by one... Which gets a little tedious for everyone. There's a fellow who runs a shop called "Numisaisne" (nice pun, right?) a street over from CGB whom I've enjoyed talking to, buying and selling. I just don't know, however, if he is likely to have good Spanish material; you might give them a call before heading over.

The "Bourse du collectionneur" (rue Saint Marc) always seemed uninterested in showing me anything worth my time and the guys who run the "Panorama numismatique" right around the corner are a bit of a joke: I think they have some potentially very good material in their holdings, but talking to them is such a chore, asking them to show you, say, what they have in certain periods and denominations... I resent giving money to dealers who have absolutely no interest in actually interacting with potential clients, even when it was abundantly clear that a) I know something about the subject and b) only show up if I have some money to put down.

French coins are where you find them....the only shopping I've ever done for them in France was in Toulouse. The place where I found the largest number was in Portland OR, but has closed recently. They keep turning up though, in the oddest places, and most dealers have no demand for them.

Someday I'd like to get back to France and try to find some of the old branch mints. If any of them still exist....I've had no luck googling up images of La Rochelle or Montpellier, or any others for that matter....