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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,990 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
I just picked this one up today. The edges look good, and the weight is 26.44g, which seems to be within tolerance given the grade. Although my krause says that this coin had a mintage of 97,000, just how truly rare is my coin? Also, how would you grade it (given the cleaning and corrosion on the reverse) and what kind of value would you assign to it? Thanks!   |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I really don't like the softness of the portrait details combined with ghosting around obverse legend and uneven dentils and corrosion / porosity on the reverse. If I saw this coin at a shop, without even knowing the series, I would consider it a counterfeit.
I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good to me. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of counterfeits and this series will be along to voice their opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3499 Posts |
TwoKopeiki- Thanks for the input. However, I'm not quite sure that I really see any ghosting. Also, the dentils are rather even in length. I think that some of these aforementioned concerns may be related to the harsh cleaning in concert with the lighting in the photo.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
I think the coin is real but it looks to me like it has had tooling done on the obverse in addition to a brutal cleaning process. It could be just the lighting on the photo but I think the metal has been messed with. These Imaginary bust coins are all great historical coins but this is a relatively common date, the 1808 is the key to the imaginary bust series for Chile. In this condition most collectors I know would pass on the coin due to the damage, so it is impossible to guess at a value.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
jfransch- Thanks for the input! I am glad to hear that you think that it's real. However, I'm not certain that it has been tooled. Cleaned brutally, yes, but the streaks are actually not evident when not in direct sunlight, as my coin was when I took the pic. I actually only paid $50 for it, so I hope that I at least got my money's worth.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
50$ is an amazing price, even in that condition :) The coin looks OK to me, the only copy I've seen of this type didn't the hair properly (they looked mushy and not detailed - while here they seem sharp), and I don't see the usual diagnostic for copies. A picture of the edge would be a must-have though to confirm this. You can check out mine here : https://goccf.com/t/141221And the fake we were showed here : https://goccf.com/t/140899Edited by MathieuMa
07/11/2013 02:08 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Most of the physical strike/design flaws which could be seen as red flags are, to me, pretty normal for Santiago and/or this bust in particular, and could be explained away as such. Roman, I think the "ghosting" on the obverse may just be residue left behind after scrubbing off the same yuck that's still there on the reverse... and I think the appearance of uneven denticles on the reverse is caused by that yuck covering certain spots. I'd want to compare some genuine examples first... but I lean genuine. Might even be "improveable"... Quote:
In this condition most collectors I know would pass on the coin due to the damage, so it is impossible to guess at a value. .........? IF genuine... plenty of detail and a popular, scarce type. ABSOLUTELY a market for that piece - just not from coin snobs. Figure the market for this type/year with this level of detail BUT few/no problems, and deduct accordingly. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
realeswatcher- Thanks for the input (and for agreeing that my coin still certainly has desirability despite the problems). Here are a few edge pics:    |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
On your last picture, you can see that there are two or three circles at the same place.
The pattern is made of one square, one circle, and so on. O=O=O=O=
At the opposite of those 3 circles, do you have something similar ?
PS : the edge quality of this serie was pretty low (you can check my coin linked earlier) - for other issues I would have had direct authenticity doubts ... but with this issue a such edge is possible.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
MathieuMa- Very good eye. Actually that is one of the overlaps. Rather than it being three circles in a row it is actually two circles with half of a rectangle between them (half is covered with one of the circles from the other edger die).
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Indeed, I guessed it was the overlap :) You should have another one at the opposite on the rim of the coin, is that the case ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
MathieuMa- That is in fact the case. I am happy to say that I've been aware of how the edges should look for some time now. So I always look for the two overlaps exactly 180 degrees across from one another.
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New Member
Singapore
23 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Realswatcher
regarding your comment " IF genuine... plenty of detail and a popular, scarce type. ABSOLUTELY a market for that piece - just not from coin snobs. Figure the market for this type/year with this level of detail BUT few/no problems, and deduct accordingly."
I am no coin snob, merely a collector who enjoys collecting coins and strives to get fair value for the money I spend and to acquire coins that I am proud to own. Could you please enlighten me on the proper procedure to "deduct accordingly" on a coin with serious contamination on the back and a harsh scrubbed look on the front? At what point does the price spread not warrant holding out for a nicer coin? At 10% discount? At 25% discount? At 50% discount? I did not state there was no market, I stated there was no way to guess the "value".
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
jfransch- Very true that the value is difficult to determine. However, it might be possible to at least give the coin a details grade. But I just wonder how this coin would net given the corrosion and loss of some details on the center of the shield.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
The coin wouldn't be graded because of the cleaning.
I'd say ... VF- maybe, after some cleaning to remove the black crap on it (this is no corrosion) - an acetone dip would help it for sure.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,990 |
Posted 07/10/2013 5:42 pm
