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 Replies: 197 / Views: 19,700 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
This topic, if it generates interest and participation, deserves to continue.
Let the discussion go on.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
I find it extremely educating and fun to read.
Not actively participating since I can't really contribute on the matter.
Just lurking in the back learning...
And I bet I'm not the only one doing so.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
I have been following this from the get go and feel like I have to chime in, you know, just because. I respect Mike's opinion so my head says, he is correct. But the problem is I still cannot wrap my pea brain around his explanation. Mike, obviously am reading at a toddler level here and need diagrams  . Also, please understand, this is a very interesting in educational read! So many knowledgeable members weighing in - cool!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
10/08/2014 9:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
Hi Mike ... Thanks for posting a link to that "mad" website. I'm in a similar quandry as is CoinsKelly. The website helps my comprehension, somewhat!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
Mike, I just re-read this thread and hope you can walk me through one final item. With the false dies, how did they make an impression on nickel? I understand the fact that there is the doubling on only one side instead of both indicating false dies, but nickel is a harder metal so could a wack really do it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
This is all extremely fascinating... thank you all.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Can we clear some things up? Is a false die a counterfeit die? Why would they go through the trouble in making a counterfeit die but not hardening it first? Seems that it would instantly damage the die and be a complete was of time. Is Mike saying that this is a genuine nickel, but that the additional strikes were from a counterfeit die? Or the entire coin is counterfeit? Were they making counterfeit coins when this nickel was circulating? There appears to be wear consistent with the rest of the coin, which hasn't been addressed. Westcoin had expressed his fear of Chinese coins faking people out. I posted an 1864 IHC with a Bold N inside an NGC holder the other day, but found these two coins the other night. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-LIBERT...191357549982http://www.ebay.com/itm/1880-LIBERT...191357545393Edited by Drsandman2
10/08/2014 11:04 pm
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Moderator
  United States
16680 Posts |
According to Mike in an earlier post, the coin was made outside the Mint by someone with counterfeit dies.
Pretty darn good at exactly 5 grams.
Was this a blank planchet to begin with then false dies were implemented?
I think that's what he's saying. The VG-F level of wear tells me it circulated.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I think the coin is genuine. It was struck at the mint and circulated like most other Liberty nickels. It is the extra hair curl and stars that were added on much later by striking it with dies fabricated outside of the mint. If I have it correctly, soft dies, counterfeit dies, and false dies are all referring to the same thing. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
I just thought I would add an intellectual observation: This one just keeps going & going & going like an Energizer Rabbit.  |
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Moderator
United States
16680 Posts |
DE, I have a hard time a coin as exacting as this one (details wise), was struck outside the Mint.
Soft dies, counterfeit dies, I'm not an error or Classic fake coin expert except the Machin's Mills and non-regal English issues as it pertains to Colonial/Post Colonial America.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
If both VT's 1904 and my 1909 were produced from counterfeit dies as Mike says, why didn't the maker go for an even more dramatic effect? The alignment on both pieces could have been rotated to achieve a more startling appearance. Then too, why haven't more of these come to light?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
Only the partial strike(s) are fake. The host nickel is genuine. Counterfeit second strikes that look like this are legion among more recent coins. What you're seeing is typical of "soft" dies.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:Here's another specimen with a much more convincing-looking incomplete second strike delivered by a tilted counterfeit die (two false dies were involved): http://www.maddieclashes.com/second...nt-vertical/ This makes my point. The fields of the second, tilted strike on the Cent obliterated the details underneath. Didn't happen with this nickel. Why? |
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Replies: 197 / Views: 19,700 |
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Posted 10/08/2014 1:46 pm
