Quote: So is anyone surprised at 64 being the third-highest total?
Not with over a million Morgans alone in that grade. It was actually my answer, because I didn't consider the circumstances of the other two. However, if you limit the count to the coins which ought to be graded....
Quote: Quote: So really what PCGS is saying that (Besides the rare coins) people are actually wasting their money on grading fees
I personally theorize (see that last word?) the huge amount of assigned MS69s is a smart marketing way to keep people gambling they might get an MS70 (hence more submissions). I also agree Morgans and ASEs likely influence the number of MS69s assigned.
The gamble-baiting idea came from some help/study I have gotten from two large dealers at two different times and two different locales. Both dealers had been formerly employed graders for a TPG. Both dealers found they were consistently getting back 20% of their monster box submissions as MS70s and the rest as MS69s.
Both told me that it was not uncommon for the MS70s to have visible imperfections while there were some of the 69s that were without problems at all. Remember these guys once were paid graders. Both told me they started to look into this percentage by asking other dealers/friends, they found the same percentage was consistent.
They both said that they believed the TPGs were just randomly taking out 20%, slabbing them as MS70, and the rest were put in MS69 slabs. They also told me, when I asked, why they still do not grade for the TPGs and both said what actually went goes on at the TPG vs what they claim goes on was something they did not want to be associated with for the sake of their own dealerships/business.
The above information they shared - from being "inside the machine" - gave e what I thought was a pretty good idea to evaluate the situation. While inspecting slabs as they said, I also found their claims of damaged MS70 not too hard to find as valid also (and trying to tell why a slab says MS69 with no visible damage also).
I willingly acknowledge the concept of gamble-baiting is only theory. Being rather familiar with number crunching, actually having taught the concept of profit maximization and minimization that 20% seems to sit in a pretty sweet spot for gambling odds - just one source - http://safecasino.com.au/win/).
But again I state - the gamble-baiting concept is only THEORY.
And I always want to close posts like this with the statement that if a person likes to collect slabs - all the more power to them! A hobby is about fun.
Quote: I also agree Morgans and ASEs likely influence the number of MS69s assigned.
Morgans have almost 0 impact on 69s assigned.
Quote: The gamble-baiting idea came from some help/study I have gotten from two large dealers at two different times and two different locales. Both dealers had been formerly employed graders for a TPG. Both dealers found they were consistently getting back 20% of their monster box submissions as MS70s and the rest as MS69s.
So they claim and this idea you keep pushing has been indirectly dis-proven in countless threads on numerous forums from real dealers with real experience in those areas.
Well, I guessed 64. I actually did a project on this for statistics: using the PCGS population report, I made a graph of 1917 Type I Standing Liberty quarters. MS64 ended up being the most common grade. Of course, that's not a very accurate guess if you think about other types of coins.
After I submitted my guess, then looked at the total pop report, I realized a huge part of the market I had overlooked.
So, the answer instantly made sense considering, as others have said, ASEs and modern proofs as well as modern commemoratives and their associated proof versions and don't forget all the world silver & gold rounds and commemoratives that go into slabs too!
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Quote: I personally theorize (see that last word?) the huge amount of assigned MS69s is a smart marketing way to keep people gambling they might get an MS70 (hence more submissions). I also agree Morgans and ASEs likely influence the number of MS69s assigned.
I somewhat agree here. Not that there is necessarily a marketing ploy, but that the high population total for 69 comes from the huge volume of modern coins being submitted in bulk hoping that a few rate a 70. The profit from those getting 70 more than make up for the loss taken on the 69s.
I voted MS-64 because, before submitting my vote, I forgot that ASEs were a thing. Had those things not been included in the final numbers, MS-64 probably would have been the correct answer.
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