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"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
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7066 Posts |
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Really nice to have you include all of this history not only for your coins, but also for the rest of us too @tdz.  Really enjoying this thread. Lots of historical info along with the great coins. |
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Valued Member
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Quote:http://goccf.com/t/329294&whichpage=8#2836409So collectors of Polish coins often include a coin of Henry since he was on the Polish throne in title if not in person, in 1575. Now a Henry III testoon or shilling I do have as part of my French collection, the post 1600 issues I'm planning on selling. Unfortunately this shilling is not 1575 or before but is dated 1583. I'm presently away at an engineering conference so I can't measure or weigh it but will do so when I get back. Tho this one is after 1575, it still bears the title King of France & Poland.  Many yahrens ago I did bid on a spectacularly nice 1577 seige thaler but it went for a truly spectacular price & thus I didn't get it. This issue with the Christ standing also exists in two distinct types. I understand that the original coiner was tried for treason and a 2nd issuance of the same design was struck. There are also orts? or smaller of the same series, all dated 1577, but they are typically low grade and expensive. Edited by Gallienus
10/30/2018 10:16 pm
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Groschen dated 1542 AD from the Polish-controlled German Duchy of Silesia-Liegnitz-Brieg Glad to see these coins, since the early 1540s are a time when the main Polish mints (Krakow, Gdansk, Torun, and Vilnius in Lithuania) are idle. For Silesia, we've now seen: some 15th c. coins of Breslau/Wroclaw duchy; @giedrius iconic Glogauer groschen of 1506, the Schweidnitz 1/2 groat of the 1520s, and your nice groschen of Leignitz-Brieg. These four medieval duchies would fit inside the U.S. state of Connecticut (5500 sqmi/14,000 sqkm). By the mid-1500s, they would fall under Hapsburg rule, and not become part of Poland again until the 20th century. I'll add this slightly earlier groschen of Leignitz-Brieg, Friedrich II (1495-1547, coin likely issued before 1540) Saurma 127. It depicts St. Hedwig/Jadwiga, the wife of Duke Henry I (Piast) of Silesia, who reigned about 300 years prior.   |
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Many yahrens ago I did bid on a spectacularly nice 1577 seige thaler but it went for a truly spectacular price & thus I didn't get it "La plus ca change ..." A 1577 Gdansk siege thaler sold earlier this year at auction for just under $10,000, and another was up for sale in last weekend's Niemczyk auction (starting price $7,000), hammer price not yet posted. I have only a groat in modest grade, and with what looks like a bad lamination reverse. These are plentiful, but never cheap (as mentioned by gallienus): Obv: Christ as Salvator Mundi. DEFENDE NOS CHRISTE (Christ, protect us) Rev: Danzig coat of arms. GROSSUS CIVI GEDANENSIS Kop. 7388   Also, that is a lovely teston of Henry III. I did not mention the he continued to use the title King of Poland long after another king (Batory) took the throne. Edited by tdziemia
10/30/2018 10:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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Before moving on to our last ruler in this thread, I'll post one more Zygmunt II coin from a recent auction win, not yet received, this 1564 trojak (3 groschen), Kopicki 3307:  |
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Valued Member
United States
167 Posts |
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1564 trojak (3 groschen) Very nice coin tdziemia, I definitely need to brush up on my Polish history. Fortunately I just bought the 2 volume series "God's Playground" A History of Poland, which I think goes from 800 AD to present. To clarify the 1577 Seige thaler I saw was at auction at least 10 years ago and sold for 17K. It was a US auction & nice quality Polish has always been expensive. Also a nice groat you have. I think I may be able to post the history behind these pieces. I either got it from Karl Stephens or from the Karlkiewitz catalog. A correction: my 1583 French piece was sold to me as a "franc". It's either Jim Elmen (World Wide) or a European auction. I recall it being surprisingly cheap for the grade. Not a rare coin, but not common this nice. I used to be a US collector which gives me the affliction for wanting to scurry after high MS# things beit used beercan tabs or thalers. Edited by Gallienus
11/01/2018 09:00 am
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Very nice coin tdziemia, I definitely need to brush up on my Polish history. Fortunately I just bought the 2 volume series "God's Playground" A History of Poland On the coin... This was a short-lived type, only 1562-1564. They are plentiful, but often with a small mushy spot somewhere. Maybe that was my copy of God's Playground you bought. I bought (or was gifted?) the hard copy set shortly after release in the 1980s, but, after 3 moves since 2010, I no longer have it...  |
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Valued Member
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Maybe that was my copy of God's Playground you bought? Maybe it is? I did get the 2 vol hardcopy set which you mentioned, complete with dust jacket. This also has that plastic covering to protect the dustjackets which is a great idea. Currently finishing up the book on the Polish War of 1919-1920 i.e. White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-20, Kindle Edition, also by Norman Davies, 4.3 out of 5 stars, 38 customer reviews Then I'll get to this series. Book reading is usually followed by a frenzy of related coin buying but I don't know how much I can do as I just bought a pretty expensive [by my limited standards] Roman Aes Grave coin from a European auction.  |
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Nice that we see emblems on the book covers that correspond to those on the coins. The last ruler of Poland whose reign was entirely in the 16th century was Stefan Batory (1576-1586), a Hungarian royal who agreed to marry Anna Jagiello. He "spread the wealth" with his coinage: Gdansk, Olkusz, Poznan, Riga and Vilnius all minted during his reign, though some are more scarce than others. Gdansk/Danzig minted denars throughout his reign, but larger denominations like grosz and trojaks only in 1578 and 1579. As luck would have it, I just received an October auction win today, this 1579 grosz from Gdansk, Kopicki 7433:   Edited by tdziemia
11/02/2018 8:42 pm
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Moderator
United States
34447 Posts |
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7967 Posts |
Quote:
I am still playing a little catch up with this thread No problem, and you are now caught up! That czworak (4 groat) is super. I posted the same date on p.8, but mine's been cleaned, has a rim ding, and some mushiness on the legends. That's what happens when you get outbid on a few, then get over-eager. When the thread was launched, this was meant to be the last week, but I see no reason not to keep it open a while longer ... 'Specially since I have a few nice things in the mail. Then we can start with Polish coins of Zygmunt/Sigismund III over on the World Coins & Commemoratives forum, since we will quickly move into the 1600s with that reign. In the meantime, here is what a Lithuanian engraver thought of Batory a couple of years later. 1581 Trojak (3 groat) Kopicki 3365?, Iger V.81.3.g? Ivanauskas 4SB-31-11? (If this attribution is correct, it is a somewhat scarce variant)   Edited by tdziemia
11/03/2018 5:45 pm
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Valued Member
United States
167 Posts |
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I just received an October auction win today, this 1579 grosz from Gdansk, Kopicki 7433: That groz of 1579 is quite stunning. I've no idea how common some things are but I can't see any room for improvement with this coin. I do have a nice 1539 groz from auction but it's being held until I have more lots to justify the postage. Right now it costs as much to mail as the coin's worth which is pretty cheap. I think it was also high grade but I'll have to see when I get it in hand. |
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Pillar of the Community
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Thanks. I was really pleased with the coin. I think the die makers in this part of the world really had mastered their craft by the late 1500s. Plenty of dazzling coins in the reigns of Stefan Batory and then Zygmunt III (the latter we will see in coming weeks).
Edited by tdziemia
11/04/2018 8:41 pm
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@tdz, are you thinking that we will post our Sig III coins from up until 1599 AD on this thread and then our 1600+ coins on the new thread over in the world coin section of CCF?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Posted 10/30/2018 8:57 pm
