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 Replies: 37 / Views: 6,885 |
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New Member
United States
14 Posts |
Hi all! I am not quite sure about--whether this certain specimen, a Russia Romanov Anna 1733 Silver Rouble, is authentic or not. Knowing that huge batches of counterfeits exist among early russian roubles. I became suspicious on this one. However from my first glance it looks right. Patina is steady and deep. Circulation traces natural and reasonable. I am NOT familiar with the edge pattern of those. Need your help on it, many thanks! In addition, on the reverse side, the surrounding inscription "#1052;#1054;#1053;#1045;#1058;#1040; #1056;#404;#1041;#1051;#1068; 1733" has an incomplete "#1041;" with the letter's lower half part completely collasped (no hole in it). Those inscriptions look quite off compared to other specimens.(really crude, looks like each specimen has its own font...) Anyway, I'd like to hear what you think. Any comment is welcome.  Edited by Aomori
11/17/2018 9:27 pm
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New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
Seems those old russian cyrillic inscriptions fell in battle......
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Doesn't look promising. The reverse lettering is spaced much too far apart in some places, and the letters are oddly short. The links in the chain are too oval (especially at the neck) and missing their holes in the lower part.
The obverse has what appears to be a large die chip in the right field, but this doesn't match any known-authentic issues I've been able to find, meaning that it was probably a die defect only on whatever particular obverse die struck this coin.
With this being a heavily counterfeited issue, I'd recommend authentication.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I am under the impression that it is genuine. Edge is correct for this type - leaf like or some dinosaur feet impression.
Anna ruble coins are know for a large number of varieties. I believe 1730 ruble alone is home to possibly ten (!) When I tried to research my 1730 ruble. I would not be surprised if this is an uncommon variety.
Still a nice coin!
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
24885 Posts |
 To the Forum. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
24885 Posts |
Edited by Dorado
11/18/2018 04:45 am
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Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts |
There is no way that this coin is a fake.
Counterfeits can be good, but getting a fake to look this good is unheard of.
I do not understand why (very) experienced members of this forum spread doubts, and condemn to falsity coins that show no traces of being fake, this is a struck coin, with legitimate wear, a consistent color and patina, excellent detail quality and still substantial precision even after such mishandling of the dies as led to that massive chip in the fields, a coin that diverges by small lettering problems easily attributable to the die sinkers or just overuse of the die!
Graders don't have some miracle machine that others don't.
Quite obviously authentic. Notwithstanding the large number of forgeries out there.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7939 Posts |
I don't know this type and I don't know much about counterfeiting, which makes me pretty unqualified to comment.
But I can at least make these observations:
- CoinArchives currently has 24 1733 roubles shown, from sales over about the last 5 years
- there are at least a half dozen Bitkin varieties (61,64,65,66,67,68,70,79) mentioned, and many others without a Bitkin attribution
- I did not see a die match for either the obverse (even ignoring the chip) or the reverse. But there appears to be an enormous amount of variation in this type (the 3 Bitkin 64 coins sold at Sincona in Oct. are all different)
Now my eyeballs are spinning, so I need to do something else for a while.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
24885 Posts |
Quote:
I do not understand why (very) experienced members of this forum spread doubts, and condemn to falsity coins You need to apologize for your words!  and many more divergences *only* in the shield...  |
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Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts |
I stand by my statement.
I may not have a large "post count" on this forum, but I have significant expertise in 17-18th century coinage and techniques (specifically Italian States) Such small variations as those you are describing are commonplace in such large coins and in no way "condemnation" of falsehood. Not only so, but the fact that no known fake exists with precisely these variations, is a significant factor to indicate that this is not a mass produced counterfeit, neither by striking nor by centrifugal casting the two common methods by which fake roubles are produced, but much more probably a legitimate issue made by one of the innumerable die pairs used by the Russians.
LRC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
acsearch has images of many different varieties, too. Many that are a closer match to the OP coin than the one that Dorado posted.
I firmly believe forgers can make fakes that can pass a "photo on the internet" level of scrutiny. There is certainly a financial incentive to forge this type of coin and the fact that there are many design variations for this particular issue makes authentication even more difficult.
We don't have specific gravity or even a weight to see if the coin has proper physical characteristics, yet.
Hopefully, swamperbob will chime in on this one.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7939 Posts |
Edited by tdziemia
11/18/2018 2:31 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36738 Posts |
The color and degree of wear on this one would easily fool me IF this coin is fake.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7939 Posts |
Also ...
If you look at all the recent auction sales, you will find:
- different numbers and types of jewels in the horizontal band below the queen's bosom
- different numbers of the gizmos that decorate her dress at around 6:30
- differences in the lock of hair closest to her cheek
- differences in the spacing of the first three letters of the obv legend
All of this on examples sold by Heritage, Sincona, Kunker, which I take to be reliable.
It made me ready to have a drink about 6 hours earlier than normal.
Edited by tdziemia
11/18/2018 2:46 pm
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New Member
United States
14 Posts |
Many thanks to all of you guys! It seems we got a strong debate on this coin. I am now adding more photos of it which were taken under natural light(it's cloudy today locally). Despite the divergences on design issues, this coin looks really "right" based on its patina and wear. You can see the black patina contouring eagle's wings are in such a depth. No recent forgery could do that. At least, I would say this coin has a long history. If not an official legitimate issue, it would at least be a comtemporary conterfeit. But who knows? Haha!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36738 Posts |
 if counterfeit it is an old one. |
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Replies: 37 / Views: 6,885 |
Posted 11/17/2018 10:02 pm
