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How Far Back Can We Go? Sixth Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 04/11/2024  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
well dang - that is a long time - I ain't gettin any younger here..
A destiny we all share.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 04/11/2024  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time for the next level!

We Need - 1408 C. E. (A. H. 811)
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ttkoo's Avatar
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 Posted 04/12/2024  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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 Posted 04/15/2024  12:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
a whisper, almost silent, across the open field.......tdziemia....tdziemia
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
04/15/2024 12:47 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 04/15/2024  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Apologies for my absence (and thanks to j1m for giving me a heads up)... This is a month of lots of travel, and just returned from 7 days floating down the Rhine. Great for satisfying wanderlust, but less great for internet connectivity (and, honestly, if I spent as much time on coin forums last week on vacation, as I normally do, I think my wife would have thrown my computer into the river).

This Polish half groat has been dated to 1408 (Pawlikowski XI, Kop. 359). Still the auction house photos (I have gotten a bit sloppy on this, and can't devote time to make my own right now).
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Copyright Gabinet Numizmatyczny Damian Marciniak

If you have a half groat of Wladyslaw Jagiello, you may have it attributed with a Kopicki number. More recently Pawlikowski did a new attribution, assigning the subtypes to narrower date ranges. As best I can tell, he assigned the ones with initials (A, n, p, s etc.) to certain mint officials with these intials, whose tenure dates at the Krakow mint were known. He then used things like lettering styles, punctuation types, etc. to assign the ones with no initials to date ranges in between the initials. So, Kopicki type 359 was divided into several subtypes with different date ranges by Pawlikowski (VII, X, XI, XII).
There are two other types assigned to a single year: A (Andrzej Czarnyszka) under crown is assigned to 1403 (Pawlikowski V, Kopicki 366); n under crown (Nicolaus Follisfessilowski, Kopicki 361) is split in two date ranges by Pawlikowski, one of which is 1407.
Mentioning this because these coins are not so rare ... maybe someone has one in their collection.
Edited by tdziemia
04/15/2024 12:05 pm
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 Posted 04/15/2024  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic!

I will update to title tomorrow. In case another 1408 appears.
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 Posted 04/16/2024  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Quote:
I was surprised to see a specific mintage quoted in Numista. Was this common practice of this era?

I am also suprised to see a mintage figure and I think it is quite unusual to have that for coins from the 15th century. Here it seems records of the mintage were kept and, not least important, have been preserved. The figure (1,226,416) comes from the Vilvoorde mint master's records and is cited in the standard reference work by De Witte.


The number was calculated by de WItte from:
- the coin specifications (5 deniers, 5 grains purity of the silver alloy, and 58 1/2 coins to a Troyes pound?)
- the amount of silver delivered to the mint to make them.

The number does not reflect the real precision of this calculation, and probably should have been reported as 1,226,000.

The link to a digitized deWitte is here: http://www.numisbel.be/Dewitte_1.pdf
Edited by tdziemia
04/16/2024 11:34 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 04/16/2024  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For 1407, I have another undated Polish half groat of Wladyslaw Jagiello, letter n beneath crown, Kop. 361 and Pawlikowski IX:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Edited by tdziemia
04/16/2024 6:15 pm
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 Posted 04/16/2024  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The number was calculated by de WItte from:
- the coin specifications (5 deniers, 5 grains purity of the silver alloy, and 58 1/2 coins to a Troyes pound?)
- the amount of silver delivered to the mint to make them.

The number does not reflect the real precision of this calculation, and probably should have been reported as 1,226,000.

The link to a digitized deWitte is here: http://www.numisbel.be/Dewitte_1.pdf

Thanks tdziemia, that is fascinating! More history to fit inside my head. Cheers for the link too
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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 Posted 04/17/2024  01:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For 1406, I have this AH 809 Tanka from the Timurid Empire.
The Timurid Empire was a late medieval Turco-Mongol empire that dominated Greater Iran in the early 15th century, comprising modern-day Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, much of Central Asia, the South Caucasus, as well as parts of contemporary Pakistan, North India and Turkey. It is attributed to Album 2401.1.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379


footnote:
I have been advised that the figures at the top of the left coin are arabic script, however I saw it as two elephants and now I can't unsee them.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
So forever more this coin will be my "elephant's coin".
deal with it....



The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
04/18/2024 12:55 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2024  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice! Looks like a nice clear date at top of right photo?

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 Posted 04/17/2024  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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For 1406, I have this AH 809 Tanka from the Timurid Empire.
Excellent!

We will accept AH 808 coins today and tomorrow. Tomorrow will be for 1405 CE / AH 807.
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 Posted 04/17/2024  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nice! Looks like a nice clear date at top of right photo?

Yes, that's the 809

the elephants are top left.....
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
04/18/2024 12:56 am
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 Posted 04/18/2024  02:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is mid-afternoon here in southern down-under, and she who must be obeyed and I are out this evening, so I'll post this 1405 (AH807) tanka now, before I forget. The date is at the bottom of the right side image.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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