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Rant About PCGS's Absolutely Atrocious Misattributions

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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  12:50 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does anyone else feel like PCGS's pathetic misattributions are really bad for the hobby? Many non-experts buy slabbed coins when it comes to errors and varieties specifically because it can be daunting as a novice to pony up hundreds of dollars for a valuable variety coin meant to start your collection when you don't yet know enough about things like RPMs and doubled dies to protect yourself from the many unscrupulous ebay scammers out there.

That's why I was really horrified when I was just browsing the PCGS page for the valuable 1972 FS-104 LMC and found that of the 9 coins used as examples (three coins each for the Brown, Red/Brown, and Red grades), only 6 of them were actually correctly attributed! Let's go through them and identify their mistakes.

Here we have the Brown coins.
https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...-54-bn/38020
As you can see, they start off well. The banner coin is correctly IDed, as is the second from the looks of it. Then we get to the third. Holy moly, this is where the major screw-ups begin. The third coin is very clearly NOT the valuable FS-104. It's way too dramatic of a DDO for that, with far too much separation on the I of IGWT. This coin appears to me to be either the far, far less valuable FS-102 or FS-107, each worth somewhere on the order of $30-50 in this MS63 BN - a good bit less than even 1/10 of the $775 estimate PCGS gives for the 104 in the same condition.

Next up is the Red/Brown listing.
https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...-54-rb/38021

Again, the banner coin looks correctly IDed to me. Good job. Pat yourselves on the backs, PCGS. Unfortunately, the second coin is not as well IDed. The spread on this MS64 RD/BN is far too minor for the 104. This is the not-particularly desirable FS-105, which PCGS estimates at a $100 coin in this condition (compare that to the $2100 estimate they give for the FS-104 in this condition, and then factor in that we know from this picture alone that at least 1/3 of all known MS64 RD/BN FS-104s attributed by PCGS have been misidentified, and then ask yourself how much more the real coin might be worth if not for these screw ups).

Finally, let's take a look at the Red coins.
https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...-54-rd/38022
This one is the most egregious yet. The banner coin - one of only 4 MS66 RD 1972 FS-104 Lincoln Cents ever attributed by PCGS, and part of the top pop for condition - is a misattributed FS-107. An FS-107 in this condition is estimated at a respectable $560. The FS-104 is estimated at a staggering $5750. And, again, this $5750 estimate is based on a population of 4, yet we now know from this picture alone that 1/4 of those MS66 RD FS-104s are in fact misattributed FS-107s. Awful.

I just wanted to make this post because I really feel like the hobby is badly let down by services like these that first of all charge such ridiculous additional grading fees for error and variety coins that it makes this area of the hobby much less accessible to slabbed coin collectors, and second, that those coins graded for such exorbitantly high additional fees are not even particularly likely to be correctly identified in the holder, surely making buyers even more confused and wary of this already daunting area of the hobby.

What bothers me most about this, is this isn't PCGS being a victim of deceit (like if, say, someone made a good forgery that they attributed as a 104). These are all real variety coins that they just misattributed out of some combination of lack of experience and laziness. This is like if PSA slabbed a gem mint Michael Jordan rookie, only it was actually a Scottie Pippen card in the case.

Anyway, not sure what can be done about this, but I just needed to rant because I think this is really pathetic/ridiculous coming from a grading service as established as PCGS. Especially considering these coins in question are 1. very high value where the misattribution REALLY matters, 2. are high grade, so again, high value even among this rare variety, and 3. ARE THEIR OWN EXAMPLE COINS FOR THE VARIETY! I mean, really, how embarrassing to go 6 for 9 on correctly IDing the coins they're using as the example pieces...

Edited by SamCoin
08/22/2022 01:07 am
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  01:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Sam: They do anything for everything. Is not anymore a reliable company. Only marketing the rest let Bob D. to say "Blowing in the wind".
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  04:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the TPGs mess up now and then.
John1
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levelsofmadnes's Avatar
United States
3003 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  05:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add levelsofmadnes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ John1,

yes, to air is human. but them make you pay twice to have it corrected....

*** Edited by Staff | The bad word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing the filter and making the intended word obvious anyway is completely unacceptable. ***
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@John1 yeah, everyone makes mistakes, but 1 in 3 coins should not be misattributed on something this valuable when the attribution number is literally the difference between thousands of dollars in value and when I, an amateur enthusiast, can do a better job just passing over the photos of their work they post online than these "professionals" did with the actual coins in hand.
Edited by SamCoin
08/22/2022 07:51 am
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  07:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS needs to and should make it right. Call them and work it out. Good luck to you, hope it works out well for you.
John1
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@john did... did you read the post?

This isn't a post about a coin of mine they misattributed. It's a post about the fact that 1 in 3 coins they have listed for this variety on their own identification page is IDed INCORRECTLY, and how bad it is for the hobby that such a major grading service is so completely inept/unreliable when it comes to varieties. No offense, but I've noticed that you have a bad habit of replying quickly to posts whose content you haven't actually read/looked at fully, and it's not a great habit to be in on a forum where posts are often advice.
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Slerk's Avatar
Russian Federation
1557 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slerk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Suppose you contact and prove that some coins are incorrectly certified, but what will happen to the owners of the coins? I don't think auctions or local dealers will refund their money or that the owners will voluntarily give the coins for revaluation, knowing that changing one digit to etiquette will devalue their coin tenfold.
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Slerk exactly. That's why they need to get it right the first time. Every coin sold in one of these misattributed slabs should be as scandalous as a PCGS attributed counterfeit. If people can't trust the coin in a PCGS holder to even be what they say it is, then exactly what are they contributing to the hobby besides being a big useless middleman skimming off the top? People rely on PCGS to give expert certification so that non-experts can buy with confidence and without fear of being taken advantage of by experts in a hobby with a high knowledge threshold for entry. Identification, attribution, and grading are literally all they do.
Edited by SamCoin
08/22/2022 09:04 am
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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
19201 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  09:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS is still recruiting for graders (and I assume 'attributers' as well):
https://www.PCGS.com/job/grader

Get that resume freshened up and apply today! Share with a buddy.

Alert -- I'm just having fun, no harm intended.
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ijn lol it would actually be pretty fun if I had the time... unfortunately, while I could do a lot better than some of their attributors, I'm not too good at grading, so probably wouldn't meet the criteria in that regard.
Edited by SamCoin
08/22/2022 09:25 am
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2022  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes the coin is not the same denomination. But I keep quite as I use their images for educational purposes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 08/22/2022  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is very unfortunate.

I'm not sure how they would correct the problem though, especially without even knowing.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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