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My Experience With A PCGS Guarantee Submission

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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2024  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hfjacinto it doesn't matter what you believe. Just because one company's opinion is XF40 and another's is XF45, doesn't make one wrong and one right.

As for the chargeback, $25 is simply not worth the company arguing over it. They will spend more on labor costs and fees than accepting it, canceling your membership, and not doing business with you again. It does not make you right.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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hfjacinto's Avatar
United States
7273 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2024  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Honestly, I don't want to do business with PCGS anymore. I'm happily walking away.

In the end, the NGC guarantee is better for me. So I will look for NGC coins.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2024  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manosgerms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can I just ask something naieve?
For pre modern I only know a lot about Meiji era Japanese (and some other Asian) coinage.
However, the way things are graded in that market tends to allow for some of these kinds of spots at XF or even AU level.
The way things work in that market is that the grade assigned is basically entirely for the wear of the coin and if the coin has ugly toning such as this it will be ignored unless the grading is MS + in which case ugly toning might have a similar effect to light handling in the fields for example.
But for XF or AU there seems to be an allowance for a poor look that won't be reflected in the grade...
To me it makes sense that grades below MS reflect just the amount of wear that a coin has unless the spots created are artificial.
So I guess my question is - is the grade change from XF45 to XF40 a reflection of the fact that the spot may be artificial (I would expect not as there is a designation for that) or do you really get a lower grade for ugliness in these coins?
Apologies if this is a trivial question but it does seem that the US coin market works a bit differently to the market for Japanese and other Asian coins even though I assume a number of graders grade both US coins and world coins...
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hfjacinto's Avatar
United States
7273 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2024  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My coin actually had more wear than XF45, hence the XF40 was a realistic grade. The spots were ugly and one actually had corrosion. My local coin dealer was able to remove the corrosion, so the coin is conserved but it was not an XF45 coin. Sadly PCGS thinks it is.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2024  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manosgerms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see. Makes sense thank you.
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10034 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2024  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Scenario:

I ask 10 people, call them A, B, C etc. to draw a picture of a 12 inch ruler to scale (as best as they can).

I use each of the "rulers" to measure the spine of a book.

Did A, B, C,..or J get the measurement right?

When nothing verifiable is used, then using the term right measurement or wrong measurement is a moot point.

The only way to get the correct measurement of the spine of the book is to use a verifiable standardized ruler.

The very fact resubmissions exist testifies there is no factual, legitimate, and verifiable right or wrong in the present grading systems.

In fact the companies openly claim grading is an art, not a science. There is no right or wrong grade. It is all opinion based.

The recent CAC slabbing and problems it has raised shows this.

PCSG coins that were valuable in PCGS-graded slabs were submitted to CAC, and the CAC slabs say the coins were cleaned.

Thus the newly devalued coins have owners with two options:
1. Admit they were mistaken by ever trusting CAC (stickers or slabbing), or
2. Accept they were mistaken by using PCGS (etc.) and stand behind CAC who has enlightened them that PCGS should have known the coins were cleaned.

Either way the owners have to admit they made a mistake using one or the other companies.

If there was something verifiable used, the scenario never would have happened. But reslabbing profits, which are large, means nothing verifiable is used b/c profits drop off. Tiis is most likely why they abandoned the verifiable system using computers that was started in the late 90s.

BTW...if the devalued coins are now resubmitted to PCGA I hopes of getting the original grades...it's a gamble. Since nothing verifiable is used, there is no guarantee the former grade will be re-applied. Some will not be happy they went into this with the trust they did to start with.





How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
04/23/2024 7:28 pm
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