PCGS ASE Submission Rookie Questions

I would call PCGS and run your questions by them. You're going to be spending a chuck of change regardless. What are your goals/reasons for certification?

Anyone wanting to know about sending in coins for grading needs to read this (often hard to find online) info about the grading company business model...or they stand to lose a lot of money (as many do).

https://www.coincommunity.com/colle...t-graded.asp

It was a dealer challenging me to look at how inconsistent the MS70 grade was (obvious ASEs with imperfections are not hard to find) coins) on slabbed ASE's that made me start looking into this many years ago.


If you just like slabs, then by all means get them slabbed. But otherwise most of the value goes into the pockets of the graders.

Actually I was b/c I love the Walking Liberty Design and also liked the eagle on the REV. But (was it 2019, 2000?) when the US mint literally doubled the price of silver proof eagles (and also silver proof sets), it ruined the series for me. When I see mine, I am automatically reminded of this ridiculous act or price gouging and greed and just cannot put more money into the mint b/c of this.

It is a shame b/c I had/have some of the keys. I have been sitting on them since that time, but maybe this spring will get them out of safety deposit and trade them for other coins I would like.

But the ASE's I was talking about in my former post were actually direct from the mint in monster boxes. My, then, local dealer said he found over a couple years he consistently got back 23% of the monster box submissions as being MS70. He thought that more coincidence and deliberately started to annually poll his friends and other large dealers (at shows etc.) who also sent in monster boxes. He said all of them found out they were getting back 23% as MS70s. This convinced him the grading companies were just scooping up a random number off the top of the boxes to be MS70s.

He challenge me to start looking at MS70 ASEs for obvious marks that should have kept them from being MS70s. He was right. it was not hard to find them. This was all back right when the MS70 slabbed ASE craze (HSN style) was hitting the internet trying to convince people PCGS ASE MS70 slabs would make valuable investments for the future.

That entire event of him sharing this info with me started me researching the companies and how they actually operate. The deeper I got, the more I realized if an individual dealer did business like the companies do, that dealer would be blacklisted.

I have a number of essays on what I have found, but the following is linked to PCGS website data and shows more than 30% error (by their own stated standards) in the rookie level area of assigning the No FG variety (which they charge extra to do) on Kennedy half dollar slabs.

Download and read the essay at the following link. It is a real eye opener and you can check all the data yourself.
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2

Now THAT is funny ... Earle42

Makes one think ... I just can't get around having slabbed coins, for my family, as they would otherwise get far less value for what I leave behind.

@Tiny...thanks. I had fun coming up with her. it is unfortunate, but the facts are this is how the companies operate.

Social media nowadays has individuals thinking anything slabbed goes for big bucks. And since NGC and PCGS charge a coerced membership fee, the companies make out like bandits off of lot of unsuspecting people.

Another interesting study: Only four 1964-D nickels (extremely common date) out of 1,153 submitted got an MS70. Why is that significant? Because anything below MS65 is valued at (PCGS website) 15.00 and below that is 10.00 or less.

An MS66 is valued at 65.00. There were 185 out of 1,153 graded at this level.

This means that out of the 1,153 nickels graded, 964 at the very most were only worth 15.00! WHo can get a coin graded for only 15.00? In other words, the vast majority of these submitted coins ended up losing the customers money.

So let's look at the 185 who got an MS66. How much did they profit? It depends. If they were first time submitters then they lost around 140.00 b/c of the initial membership fee added in to the SH etc.

But they got coupons for free submissions! Yup. And in this case the coupons got them a coin worth a whole 15.00 if MS65 (and the numbers show at least half were not up to this level).

And even the 185 assigned MS66 would certainly not have brought very much (any?) profit to the submitters.

How many of those 15.00 and less slabs were submitted by newbies paying out 200.00 for membership etc.?

Overall it's a .003% (4 out of 1,153) chance sending in this coin will bring anything but monetary loss to the submitter. So if the normal collector thinks slabbing coins is going to make them money or bring them value, the stats show otherwise. That is what my friend Penny is all about: Making sure people understand they stand a good chance of being get taken for a ride if they do not do their homework, but instead they just follow modern trends on social media, youtube and ebay.

But if someone just likes slabbing their coins, then they are just paying a company to give them what they want to collect. In that case the submitters is just having fun.

The economics shade a lot on coins valued over 4 figures where TPG makes sense in more ways than one.

I agree on sub-$1000 coins the submitter is rarely going to "make money". If your goal is strictly economic gain then TPG is not the way to go for the average Joe (like me). When I had some disposable income most of my submissions were for fun, enjoyment and learning about the hobby.

Thanks for this additional info. Don't forget if this is a first time submission (and I have encoutnered newbies wanting to make bulk submissions) then the membership fee drops the profits to (192.05 - 69=) 123.00 at a minimum. If the next levels up are chosen we get profits of 43.05 and -56.95 respectively.


I chose the 1964-D specifically since it is so common and could be what a lot of newbies are out there who think they are going to get rich sending in any shiny coin might do.



Exactly. Last year I sold an MS65 DDO Walker and had it slabbed b/c the market would maximize profits that way. I do not like this is how the market is b/c it means a company, choosing to use subjectivity to maximize profits off of collectors, is a middleman. But if I didn't get it slabbed, the person who bought it likely would have. And, on the flip side, I actually am happy a fellow collector who likes slabs could add it to their collection.



And that is exactly what a hobby is all about.