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When Will Copper Be Legal To Melt?

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BadThad's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 08/28/2010  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't know if the government is actively withdrawing the copper cents, but they did actively withdraw the silver during the period when it was illegal to melt it and while at the same time they were telling the public that the silver and clad would co-circulate for a long time to come so there was no reason to pull the silver out. (do as I say not as I do) Today they say the cent isn't going away, that the copper and zinc cent will stay in circulation Oh and you can't melt down the copper. Is it just me or is there a sense of deja vu in all of this?


INDEED! That's exactly why I keep a small, tidy hoard.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 08/28/2010  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Ummm... Silver is still on the books at the Federal Reserve as a debt of the united states, therefore is still legal tender. This is straight from a Secret Service agent I spoke with who specializes in this stuff. You CANNOT legally melt silver Morgan, Peace, Roosies, Washingtons, or War Nickels until the Fed takes them off their books.

Sure you can, there is no law that says you can't melt down or otherwise destroy legal tender coin except for the recently passed regulation forbidding the melting of cents and nickels. It is perfectly legal to melt down silver coins.
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hockingzig's Avatar
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 Posted 08/28/2010  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hockingzig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The no melt ban,as I understand it, was designed to discourage hoarding. I don't think it has accomplished its purpose!The ban will be removed when cents and nickels are no longer worth more than the metal in them. A change in alloy would accomplish that and as older nickels are replaced, it won't be an issue. I don't think it will be too long till the copper cent ratio in circulation drops to the level where hoarding will not have a major effect on the number of cents in circulation, then the ban will have no purpose. I am still finding about 23% copper in cent rolls but it was lower until the recent"second great coin jar dump" which seems to have run its course in nickels and will slow down in cents soon I imagine. I am at just about 2200 rolls of copper so I am in pretty good shape even if the percentages drop off. If you really want to build a decent hoard I would recommend you start now. You can always change your mind and cash them at face later but if you miss the boat there will not be another chance in this lifetime! Just my thoughts based on 5 years of roll searching and hoarding. I am OFTEN WRONG! Ask my wife!
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legend's Avatar
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2010  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add legend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe it's me, but hoarding the coppers seems futile ( although I still do). The clean clads have more upside potential, based on prices. Most of the copper rolls hover around melt value in AU condition. They just last sSOOo long that you can assemble an AU set of most except the 60 D small date and a few others with no problem. So if you have a five gallon jug of LMC coppers along side a similar jar of post 82 Clad, the clads will have some serious holes in the date availability. You might not find ANY 1982 zinc small date, very few 1999 due to rolls being gobbled up looking for WAM's, and a patch of various 82-2008 would be very iffy. That makes rolls of unsearched clads worth lots more than just the melt value of copper. I'd bet that one could sell a 25 dollar box of clad in the near future for three bucks a roll. And you can absolutely sell a roll of spot free 1986 AU for ten to fifteen. Same for 1991, 1982, and others. I would sell a jar of coppers long before clads for all those reasons. Finally, the Fed action with respect to our right to melt our coins is unconstitutional: it is a prior restraint on the ability to conduct a commercial transaction: this has never before been posited upon a capitalist system, and it is overdue for legal challenge. But there ain't no smelt hereabouts, I add with emphasis. :)
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 08/31/2010  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still regardless of what anyone says, there really is no such thing as The Coin Police. No Silver Melting Police. No Copper Melting Police either. There are smelters all over the area by me and they take anything that is metal. There are no Metal Inspectors around any of them. And for sure no Metal Melting Police.
Anyone can say anything they want about melting coins, recite laws about melting coins, produce articles about melting coins and still it goes on and on and on.
Yes for a Numismatist all such meltings of coins are horrible. But to about 75% of the rest of the World, those little round things are just metal. And if they can make a cent by having some melted, that is what they do and again, there is really no Coin Police.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2010  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right Carl....I suspect there's a lot of melting going on right now. We'll see it eventually in the copper takes searchers get from boxes. From what I hear, it probably averages about 20% these days. In a few more years I think that will be down to under 10%.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 08/31/2010  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RollHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt there's a lot of copper cent melting going on - it's not that economical yet. I'd imagine that cents won't be melted down in large quantities until the cost of zinc is high enough to make melting zincolns down worth while. That way you wouldn't have to sort them. I'm not really up on smelting or metallurgy so maybe that's not really possible. As soon as it becomes legal and worthwhile though, coinstar will do it and that will be the end of the cent in circulation.

Right now the cost of materials and labor doesn't make melting pennies worth it. If you can source enough of them and can mechanically separate the copper ones, I'd imagine you could make more money selling the pennies to speculators than you would selling them for scrap.

For the copper thieves, it's probably easier to pull down a gutter, rob a construction site or gut a foreclosed home for copper to sell than it is to steal someone's penny collection. Heck, the people around here pry the commemorative plaques out of the parks and steal gutters from churches - not much return, but easier than sorting pennies!

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 Posted 09/01/2010  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Right now the cost of materials and labor doesn't make melting pennies worth it

Doesn't make coining them worth it either.


Quote:
I'd imagine you could make more money selling the pennies to speculators than you would selling them for scrap.

True, and you can probably make more money selling silver to speculators than selling it for scrap.
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 Posted 09/01/2010  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Posted Yesterday 11:43 pm


I doubt there's a lot of copper cent melting going on - it's not that economical yet. I'd imagine that cents won't be melted down in large quantities until the cost of zinc is high enough to make melting zincolns down worth while. That way you wouldn't have to sort them. I'm not really up on smelting or metallurgy so maybe that's not really possible.

Your doubting is not exactly true. There is a massive quantity of Copper coins being melted all the time. Actually it's not just pure Copper ones only since the people that melt them have no idea of what the ones after 1982 are made of. As I previously noted an electrician I know was telling me how they all just massively melt down Electrical wiring/cables and throw in large amounts of pennies too with no idea that some or possibly most are Zinc with a Copper coating. Wires, Copper looking pans or plates, electrical contacts, coins, Copper piping all get dumped and melted together. Anything that looks like Copper gets put together and the fate for all is the same. No one knows nor cares about dates or mint marks on coins that are to be melted. They are just metal to most people. And the people that work in the metal recyclers around me would only know what it is if it was a Peso.

Quote:
I am not sure that it will really be worth it to melt the cents though. They are only 95% copper, and most of the copper demand is 99.9% pure. The added cost of further refining is going to drastically cut down on the profitability of melting the cents. Granted, the same is true for 90% silver coins, but it is a question of scale. Refining silver costs roughly the same as refining copper, so if that cost is $.25 a lb, then that would be 7.5% of the value of the copper, and only .09% the value of the silver.


Again remember that those that do the melting could care less of percentages of anything. In most instances Copper is melted in bulk quantities and the smelters know how mcuh heat is required to sift off non Copper materials and leave other heavier ones as residues. They are not just melting coins, they are melting wires, pipes, tubing, etc as well as anything else that even faintly looks like Copper including coins. And too, they know how to sell off such things as Zinc, Tin, Alluminum and/or anthing else they recover.
Edited by just carl
09/01/2010 09:53 am
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TenSense's Avatar
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 Posted 09/02/2010  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TenSense to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$1.50 in pre-zincoln cents equals a pound of copper. You don't have to melt it. The intrinsic value of the coin means someone will pay close to that for it once they're eventually out of common circulation.

The assumption here is incorrect. You don't have to melt your coins to make money off the metal content. The spot price of copper drives their bullion value, not hypotheticals about melting. Otherwise, you'd sell your 64 Kennedy halves to me for numismatic value only, right?
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dsmalouf's Avatar
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 Posted 09/02/2010  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsmalouf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like someone has already mentioned, I don't worry about when/if but just adding to my "stack" of pre-1982 cents because when it comes time to sell to refiners or private parties, holding the original cents will prove their copper content better in that form rather than a bar. That way, whatever someone who buys does with the copper doesn't matter because I got paid for 95% pure copper and made the deal through a face value of the pennies without having to weigh them.
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 09/02/2010  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The assumption here is incorrect. You don't have to melt your coins to make money off the metal content.

Your missing the main point. The individuals that melt coins, any coins, are not Numismatistically educated. Also, they have little to no idea about any values except for just metal weight. Many can not speak English, read English, nor care to even learn English. An American coin is just a piece of round metal. If it is accepted by the metal recyclers, then it is just metal. Look around you and think of just how many people your looking at have any idea of what a coin is made of.
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neversuited1's Avatar
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 Posted 09/04/2010  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add neversuited1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I gotta play devil's advocate. Melt away..melt all you want. It will make our "Collections" increase in value. Especially in future generations. Supply and Demand.

...I do hoard copper btw. :D
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 09/04/2010  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
doubt there's a lot of copper cent melting going on - it's not that economical yet.


When someone is already set-up and running a melting operation they will cetainly be tossing some coins in there. Like carl said, I'm sure this is going on all over the place.
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joshseane's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2011  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joshseane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"no coin police" Wouldn't the coin police be the Secret Service?
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