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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
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the misplaced 7 on the A of STATES is actually the micro 'leprechaun sign' that was secretly struck on select dies as protest against political policies in Ireland. Correct.....I thought that you were just joshin' with that 'denomination' talk.  Quote:
Other samples will probably turn up eventually, Oh sure they will....(probably in the same bargain bin with a few 1X). Quote:
it really does look like a digit in there instead of something there that looks like a 7. Statements like that are going to drive me to drinking Bryan........wait a minute.......that's not such a bad idea.......Thanks buddy.....  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Why don't you do ANACS now, and give both yourself and the other TPGs time to think about it ?
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
14454 Posts |
well since I am really in no hurry I don't mind waiting. Its not like I am going to sell it or anything. Its just if PCGS or NGC attributes it, they will have to add it to their registry and then I can add it to mine I can't do that with ANACS Quote:
it really does look like a digit in there instead of something there that looks like a 7. Quote:
Statements like that are going to drive me to drinking I was just meaning I can see why he called it a 7 because its uniform like a 7. I do not think its a digit from another coin or anything  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Hah.......too late Bryan, I am already schnockered. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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Hah.......too late Bryan, I am already schnockered. Beat me to it. By only a short while, though. Keep it in the NGGC holder, Bryan. They'll approve it for attribution, and then you can have it reslabbed. I wouldn't risk a crossover, even with the pressure on the TPG to maintain the grade of such an important coin. This one would have just as much value in any top-tier TPG slab. Why mess with it? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
yeah I would love to keep it in NGC holder I was just asking wondering when they would attribute it. I figured they would need to attribute it faster than PCGS would since CollectorsSociety has a B1 Reverse variety only Registry set and PCGS doesn't, theirs is just the super set and a couiple others but nothing specific to B1's
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
its all new, and a
BIG thing.......this going to be a shot heard round the world....and patience is the key that I know you have....and certainly not the time for plastic merry go round chairs/holders.....
The thing is........I hate to see......as if EVERY ONES BEEN SLEEPING and missed this one............you see its not a big thing.....Well let me check my vault, as I can not check every thing, I probably have 3 some where? ....the one thing I wonder, when something like this comes across... is why they don't require a second one? to be listed as a few vams do require before it gets listed?
and why is that?
But yours Is going to be listed YEAAAAAAAA.. sometimes IN YOUR FACE COUNTS......., so sorry I'm out of beer.... so I can't comprehend...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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The thing is........I hate to see......as if EVERY ONES BEEN SLEEPING and missed this one............you see its not a big thing. No believe me its a HUGE thing to me not only as my first discovery coin but also me being a B1 collector. I know its big and never did I say I thought it was anything other than big (if you knew how many emails and private messages I have received about this coin you would know that I knew it was big for the vamming community) so not real sure what you mean by that. The only thing I said is I am glad its not like the 21-D1X where there will never be any way to see how much the coin is actually worth unless the discovery coin is sold |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I don't know for sure Gene, I am only speculating here on this, but I would imagine that some 'discoveries' might require two coins that match (just to be sure that attributes like scratches and fills are actually die specific rather than coin specific). Die cracks are the type of attribute that are most definitely die specific, and therefore should not require further substantiation. I really hate to even think about why things as minute as scratches and polishing lines are listable, but cracks are not....  As for the thing about 'everyone's been sleeping and missed this one', I have a hard time believing that this is the case. VAM weenies spend a lot of time dissecting every little speck on their coins, (and I mean no disrespect to Bryan or Dave whatsoever), but if they noticed something different about this coin, I think that I might be rather naive to think that other vammers would not come to the same conclusion (that this coin is different). So why hasn't another already been found in the past 45 years, with so many expert eyes searching? The answer is that (in all rational likelihood), there aren't any others. Everyone is rechecking their vam-80s now....(like they didn't notice before that their coin didn't have the obverse die chip, or a totally different reverse crack when they originally attributed their coin)....Now, miraculously, they are enlightened, and their coin may have transformed to be something that it was not before. I think that if the experts were unable to identify differences in varieties before, then the chances of them doing it now probably have not increased much. edited to add: I may have had just a wee bit too much liquid refreshment this evening, as whenever I do, I start to second guess myself, so let me clarify one thing before I become even more despised than I already may be: I did not mean that the VAM experts did (do) not know how to identify varieties. On the contrary, I believe that vammers know exactly what they are looking at, and for. The reason that they did not notice something different about their vam-80 before, is because their vam-80s are in fact, vam-80s. The things that set this particular coin apart from vam-80 are pretty obvious. I am not a vammer, and even 'I' noticed that this coin was different right off the bat....(I believe that I made mention of this very early in this thread). If 'I' could see this, I highly doubt that Joe Blow Vammer would not have noticed these differences 45, 30, 10, or 5 years ago as well. Edited by zeewool
10/30/2010 01:47 am
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Precisely, zeewool. I will be equally surprised - which is to say, not at all - if only one or two more are ever found, as if none are. Someone, somewhere would have already found it if it were there.
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Valued Member
United States
278 Posts |
Brian- I am not a huge VAMer, but I have followed this with gusto. You deserve an amazing congrats. Your effort and time here, helping everyone with any Morgan related question, has been rewarded. Congrats.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Bryan, CONGRATS and the very best to you.
Dave / Zee,
WHAT IF amateurs like me have it and do not know what they have? I only collect O's and some others so that eliminates me. I am serious about this.
Bryan, do you know the "chain of command" / previous owner / owners / pedigree on this particular coin?
Pardon me if this has been discussed here earlier.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5632 Posts |
IMO, Who ever owned this coin before it was bought by Santa, Is probably NOT a happy camper, I would think.......I am so amazed at the condition of Anna on this coin, very sweet discovery piece, It is just in super nice shape, out there staring everyone in the face,
(as I read it was around for sale for a while)till some sharp hunter, took notice......
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
A seemingly good and logical point Ceylon, unless a bit is understood beyond mere attribution of varieties..... How do paleontologists know this, that, and the other thing about dinosaurs just by looking at a few broken bones? ..... How do astral physicists know this, that, and the other thing about other planets and stars just by looking at little dots in the night sky?
This is where a bit more relevance of thought, (beyond the 'which variety is it and how much is it worth' mentality), comes into play.....
The PRIMARY reason that this coin is probably unique today is because of its condition coupled with the reverse crack.
Not just 'a crack', but an all encompassing peripheral crack.....Cracks like this are normally found on coins that were struck by dies that had been in service for a relatively good period of time, and such cracks are manifested (over time) through metal fatigue caused by repetitive impact......How do we know that this was not the case with this coin? ..... This 360 degree crack is on a DMPL surface and so stands as the smoking gun.....proof positive (in my mind) that this crack became the birthmark of this die on 'first strike'.....Cracks of this expanse are not normally found on DMPL surfaces, and therefore, stand out as extreme abnormalities with reason and cause for their existence.
How many subsequent strikes were possible on a die that was obviously so weak to begin with? The answers will vary depending on who you ask.....My answer would be that you probably have one toe for every satisfactory coin that this die struck (with several toes left over).
edited to add:
So the answer to your question Ceylon, would be yes it is possible but that degree of possibility is immeasurable.....however, that degree of immeasurability can be narrowed down by an 'educated' guess......My educated guess will differ from Joe Vammer's 'educated' guess, in that our 'educations' are of differing origins.
Edited by zeewool
10/30/2010 09:54 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Bryan, do you know the "chain of command" / previous owner / owners / pedigree on this particular coin? I can only trace it back as far as March Heritage Ft Worth Tx ANA Signature auction and by the time line of the HA auction and the time this showed up on ebay from the seller it was purchased for me from, they are the buyer of the HA auction. Besides that I have no idea any further than that since it wasn't even mis-attributed as a VAM-80 and only a 1878-7TF on the label it would be very difficult to trace it back to anyone in particular, at least any way I know how. The first time I saw it on ebay was over 90 days ago and was auction 270557718540 (Just don't remember the date it ended but pretty sure it was probably put up right after the HA sale). The Dealer on ebay deals in high grade coins and has been doing so since 1964 and is a dealer in Florida Quote:
Who ever owned this coin before it was bought by Santa, Is probably NOT a happy camper Judging by what they paid in the HA auction and what I know was paid for the coin, they made about a $400.00 profit on the coin. Usually that would be enough to make a dealer happy. Many dealers do not mess with VAM's because they do not think its worth their time, they think they are wasting more time trying to figure out what VAM a specific coin is then it would be worth and in most cases they are correct. It would take one BIG one like this to pay for their time they took to figure what VAM each coin that came through their shop, and that is for small shops the bigger ones would probably have to find a few BIG ones to pay for how much their time is worth |
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Posted 10/29/2010 5:21 pm
