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 Replies: 103 / Views: 11,656 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Am I to be guessing or assuming the PHANTOM clashing around the hair curl is significant? WHEN has that ever been evident? I have been touching base here and there on this question....and haven't had time to really look into this solution...Yet I find, some of the basics have been well over guessed....I think the answer is back with earlier posts and pic's,,,, I will try to spend so time like you all have...NOT THAT I AM THE REDEEMER..Know it all But it doesn't add up from the start...its a great example on how to VAM a coin with many obstacles, as toning can be... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
interesting to note that some...of the characteristics are of the VAM 23...yet in this time of the dies life if it was its all obliterated, the reverse is a different and newer die...the OBV as it in its latest stage has premium qualities(best examples of" of die erosion,,, and the OBV has no distinguishable attributes to assign a true clash or letter transfer...and also to note the reverse is a newer die not found with tremendous die erosion...but in much better state..and does not show the clashing which should be there in the original die marriage... BUT ....they have changed the rules to die classification... so where the heel are we to go from here?....It was something and now from die wear and erosion... it has reverted back to something? HUMMM...best open a new can of beer. or.. for Zee an new, but I still have a half bottle of booneies farm strawberry hill .. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Hi Gene.... as you can see, I have steered the thread off course (again) with foolish dreaming.
You know, I don't really think that the rules have changed on us, but maybe we are just now realizing what the rules actually are.... I used to believe that the die is the die, but I am thinking now that probably I was just ignorant to the die classification thing all along.... you too maybe?
This is an interesting coin for sure, and not because of features, but because of the 'possibility' of features.... Did you see those images that VfM posted of another coin earlier in this thread? I'd like to see images of the entire obverse, but I doubt that is possible.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
TO MY BESTEST BUDDY...the die was the die... when we BOTH started this vamming thing....It made SENSE...or could lock something into something....and realize something....I guess back in the day just moment ago...
The thing is....in the begging GOD made man so forth and so forth, and then there were Vams....YOU AND I were there....when a supposed dies had combinations..or marriages THAT STILL hold true to the say 78 series vams...
NOW..... its all changed into ... what is the saying? I better go look...ITS LIKE NIGHT AND DAY..,.but crap cant find now the meaning is simply, it's now die state 1,7 and 24......
It's there easy way to say that there is NEW but different
BUT NOT RARE unless we say it is.....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
220 Posts |
If you look closely at the first photo I posted of the 87-P V13, you will note that eagle's top of head is a double clash on Liberty's jawbone. There is a single clash version of the same thing, just weaker. I have many 87-P V13 coins all the way through the die progression, with several examples of each stage. Others before me saw this same clash/double clash. The V13 is very common, so yes, many examples exist of this clashed stage.
Now, can we get back to the unclashed 89-P?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5632 Posts |
A tough fight just keeping up, and making sense of what should be an obvious solution.
I know things SHOULD be clearer when the OP has a chance to place the coin under a microscope and REALLY let us know what he sees................ I have seen clashing like the coin VFM has placed pictures of also, I do not have that coin, but I know it is a clear reality for the clashing the coin exhibits to happen, I see it here like you all do........Now can we get back to the "clashed" 1889-P Morgan?
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Okay VfM.... your word is as good as gold with me.... I was wrong, and you are right... (savor the moment), and thanks for hanging in there with me on it til the bitter end.... I shall now prepare to return to my village in disgrace. So what is there to get back to on this 89P? Everyone has already voiced their opinion on whether it is clashed or not.... Even the OP has not abstained from comment on that, and I think that the original intent of this thread was merely a probe into a void.... a void that we would inevitably fill with opinion, eye straining, head tilting, argument, and hard feelings..... but that is who we (collectively) are. Do I think for one moment that the OP did not already know whether the coin is clashed or not? Heh, that was pretty evident from very early on page 1..... So for those who want to get back to the 89P.... I might ask "What is there to get back to"? Did not everyone voice an opinion on the clashing or lack of it? Does anyone know what VAM it is, or what it might be designated on any particular day of the week? I think that the thread has served a purpose: We each commented (at least once) on the possibility of clashing, I was afforded the opportunity to show my fanny, and we all got our money's worth....  Alright Gene.... do I have my email thingy turned off again? I really do not do it intentionally.... but I was wondering why I have become so unpopular lately..... (surely it could not be solely because of my obnoxious personality).... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
It appears the wing clash on the reverse is consistent with about a 2-3 degree clockwise rotation. That 2-3 degree rotation puts the clashed n on the obverse exactly where you would expect to see it.
Edited by Ozland
04/01/2011 11:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Zee you got mail of some sort..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Page one has a scratch that is appears to be a clash but it looks totally wrong...notice as clean as the coin is there is also NO CLASHING by the wreath, right one as viewed....IF one had a wing clash one would also have this clash, though unlistable as its is not of a any letter...It would how ever
BE PRESENT....I think Bobby's playing us....ONE other thing...If the N clash is still present,,,why would the "wing clash under the jaw?not be there?In every case of a clashing involving anything, the wing clash is ALWAY's there, and the N clash or tick is the determing factor if there is a letter transfer.....In this case, how can a letter transfer be found without the wing clash?I can't buy that fact...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5632 Posts |
Imagine, as I have mentioned the scenario of taking the die out of service and doing a less than perfect polishing/clean-up and removing the wing clash, being it is a major eye catching distraction, and NOT polishing out the "obvious" partial worn die, letter N clashed along the neck, which by all accounts, is more than plausible, and simply because the "partial N" is still there, I would say the possibility of this being a reality, from my point of view, is quite good, Do you have a suggestion of what the apparent "partial letter N" if not that could be? Anyone. I still have not heard from the OP on what is exactly going on with this coin, being so many have asked, Tom foolery, some sort of trickery, or just a very busy OP.......
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
IMHO the wing clash has always been way stronger than the N "tic" or clash...how could one erase the stronger of the 2 with out erasing the weaker?...I do have an open mind.. just thinking out loud...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
just thinking out loud,Dad,,,when have you ever seen the N clash without the wing clash? EVER?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5632 Posts |
Gene, Do I really have to answer that, we both know the workers at the mints, are not the most energetic quality thinking more work to do kind of people.......It would not be a far fetched new idea, IMO....
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Replies: 103 / Views: 11,656 |
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Posted 04/01/2011 12:42 am
