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How Far Back Can We Go? Fourth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I need to take time to learn how to read the dates on
Islamic coins. For that reason I do not own any pieces.
Finding a " dumb down" would help greatly. There are just
too many nuances for me to grasp. Any suggestions?
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34430 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@louie, this thread may be of some interest: http://goccf.com/t/278425
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any suggestions on where to locate the Plant book?
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any suggestions on where to locate the Plant book?


I think I got mine off ebay or perhaps Amazon. There are some coin book sellers on vcoins, too.

I generally stick to newer coins (1480s and 1490s) from the Delhi Sultanate, where the dates are written islamic numerals (but a little different than the modern ones). The biggest problem is that perhaps 95% of the time the date is at least partly off flan, or ambiguous (sometimes the middle digit can actually be the first, for example).
Other times, the seller lists the coin with a particular date, but it sure looks like something different to me.
Edited by pepactonius
12/16/2018 5:38 pm
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
excellent additions during last days => rolling back in time again !


Quote:
He said in Europe they just collect by
region as you probably do, Brabant, Flanders, Saxony.


yes most collectors do that for Brabant, Flanders or Holland as far as I can tell

Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2018  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've Emailed with a few European dealers over the years and the most
popular ways of collecting the early dated coins are either by date,
region or country. Here in America, there have been two or three collectors
who had early dated holdings but I'm not sure if they had other areas that they
concentrated on. One that comes to mind was auctioned by CNG several years
ago. The Rye collection. I've spoke with Dr. Howard Minners two years ago and
his collection early dated coins consists mainly of pre-1425 Aachen, two pieces
for each date!! The only date he and others are missing are1410. My main intention
of asking if there are other collectors who collect like I do or if they have, and they do,
a much broader collection. I've thought about broadening my focus to include regnal
dated Byzantine bronze and gold coinage.The two big drawbacks are budget and one
or two early dated pieces coming up for auction.
Far and away one of the deepest collections I have seen on the net belongs to @Spence.
A very nice and well rounded collection that I have seen so far. @EddieDiz and @tdziemia
also have posted some remarkable coins as well as @1c5d7n5m. Thanks for letting me
take up space here and your time.
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Single briquets a little rough dates are clear
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  07:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1c5d7n5m and @Petrus Since both of you list Belgium
as your home country, can you recommend any coin dealers
who might handle Early Dated coins. Thanks
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34430 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the compliment @louie. I'm really enjoying all of the eye-candy that you have been posting recently!

Here is a brother to one of the coins you have posted earlier today: a Briquet from the Netherlands Duchy of Brabant dated 1474 AD. It is attributed as Levinson II-12.


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coins for 1474!

Quote:
can you recommend any coin dealers
who might handle Early Dated coins. Thanks


@louie, Jean Elsen & Sons is one with whom a few of us have experience: http://www.elsen.eu/ Most of my early dated Brabant coins have come from them, starting when I lived in Brussels in the late 1990s, but they are specialists in all the low countries (so, Brabant, Flanders, Liege, Hainaut, Netherlands, etc.). They have quarterly auctions, and also publish a quarterly list of things they have on hand outside of the auctions.

There was an immense collection of medieval coins of the Low Countries that came up for auction at Kunker earlier this year, including more early dated Brabant coins than I have seen in any single auction. Most dates between 1475 and 1498 were covered. This may have been a "one-off." Not sure how many eary dated coins they see on a regular basis. https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=sale&sid=2584
I think I've seen early dated coins of Austria at the H.D. Rauch auctions. Those are probably obvious choices, so maybe they are among the ones you've already contacted.
Edited by tdziemia
12/17/2018 09:13 am
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189728 Posts
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

A bit of a dog but it has a decent looking date.
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdziemia Elsen & Sons are great. I've bought through auctions
a couple of dozen pieces. Rauch usually has a few ED Austrian
pieces. Kunkers June auction had several ED coins from the
Low Countries. I bid on 14 and won only 5. I'll post pics after
Todd works his magic. Thanks for the info. Since I started collecting
these pieces the word amongst collectors is: Always sell through
Kunker or CNG. They always get the best prices!
Valued Member
76 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2018  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

My only 1473 dated piece. I've bid on two other pieces
over the years, but unsuccessfully.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2018  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Kunkers June auction had several ED coins from the
Low Countries


Yes, I counted over 20 pre-1500 Brabant coins . I bid on several briquets, since I am missing this type, but all of the nicer ones sold for multiples of the estimate. I think I bid on 6 or 7 coins overall, but got none. In hindsight, I would have had a better chance had I focused on the gros, which mostly sold between 150-200% of the estimate, and at lower prices than the briquets. Live and learn.
I'll be looking forward to seeing photos of the coins on which you outbid me!
Edited by tdziemia
12/18/2018 08:23 am
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