1878-CC $1 Morgan Dollar #3 - Not In A Counterfeit/Fake TPG Holder! - Page 2

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numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 10:05 am I was comparing the date on this coin against that of a confirmed authentic one. One thing I see is that the date looks somewhat rounded at the edges in this example whereas the date looks sharply flat at the edges in the confirmed authentic example. Am I just imagining the difference or do you see it too? The location of the date with respect to the denticles looks spot on though. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
Zurie Pillar of the Community United States 5672 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 10:34 am The difference in the date could just be lighting and focus. If it's not genuine, it would be an incredibly good counterfeit. Can you check if it has any of the markers of VAM-9? The mintmark position looks good for that VAM. https://vamworld.com/wiki/1878-CC_VAM-9 Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 10:52 am Don't have the coin in hand yet. It should arrive this week and I will check it when it gets here. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 188740 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 11:15 am Wow. I hope it is not a fake coin or holder. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
Zurie Pillar of the Community United States 5672 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 12:57 pm I found some additional photos of the coin from the listing. It has the same broken right 4th star that is seen in VAM-9. It seems highly unlikely that a counterfeit would match a specific VAM die pair. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 188740 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 1:53 pm Quote: I found some additional photos of the coin from the listing. It has the same broken right 4th star that is seen in VAM-9. It seems highly unlikely that a counterfeit would match a specific VAM die pair. Excellent! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 2:14 pm Thanks Zurie. Was thinking that the coin image might be lifted from a legitimate source for the sale listing and what I receive is something different. But if that is the case and they went to the trouble of lifting a genuine coin image, why not lift a genuine case image with a genuine label? Looks like it have to wait for what shows up at my door. And also see what PCGS says about the authenticity of the label and thus the holder. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
fortcollins Pillar of the Community United States 3650 Posts	Posted 12/03/2025 3:06 pm Wow. That's a twist I didn't expect. I also think the coin is genuine. When you talk to PCGS, it may also be worth asking if the coin could have been reholdered, and if at that time PCGS ever re-used an existing obverse label with a new holder. Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/04/2025 4:58 pm I received a response from PCGS essentially saying that they will not make a determination of the authenticity of a holder or a label from pictures. They provided me with a process for submitting the coin and holder for authentication. I don't have the details of the process yet. I think I will first examine the coin in hand and make a decision from there. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
psuman08 Pillar of the Community United States 1773 Posts	Posted 12/05/2025 12:19 pm Looks like a nice coin. Hope it all works out for you. Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/09/2025 9:53 pm This came in and the coin looks real to me, but is it MS64? It has the broken 4th star like VAM-9 does but not the die scratch through ONE in the reverse. Netnet, I think the coin looks real, but the label does not match a known PCGS label. Thoughts? Thanks! This is the VAMWORLD image of the broken 4th star on the right of the obverse. The subject coin does seem to match this attribute, Another attribute of VAM-9 is a tilted CC mintmark. I'm not sure if this is a match. Mintmark on the subject coin. VAMWORLD shows a die scratch for MDS and LDS strikes but is not supposed to be there for EDS strikes. This die scratch does not appear on this coin, but it could be because this is a fresh EDS coin. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
Zurie Pillar of the Community United States 5672 Posts	Posted 12/10/2025 3:38 pm I did an overlay of the mintmark positions, and it's an exact match. So I think it's a genuine VAM-9 1878-CC in some kind of transitional holder. But MS-64 seems a bit generous with that cheek. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 188740 Posts	Posted 12/10/2025 3:52 pm Quote: I did an overlay of the mintmark positions, and it's an exact match. So I think it's a genuine VAM-9 1878-CC in some kind of transitional holder. Good work. Quote: But MS-64 seems a bit generous with that cheek. And to think PCGS was stricter in that era. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11893 Posts	Posted 12/10/2025 5:57 pm PCGS said that I would have to send it in for holder authentication. No fee but I pay freight both ways. I will probably do it. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
Zurie Pillar of the Community United States 5672 Posts	Posted 12/10/2025 6:58 pm How are they going to show that the holder is authentic? Will they encapsulate it in a larger PCGS slab? Seriously, are they just going to give you a letter saying it's authentic? Maybe they can photograph it and add it to their online museum of holders! Report this Post to the Staff
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1878-CC $1 Morgan Dollar #3 - Not In A Fake TPG Holder!