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Now, Will Anyone From Here Bid On This Beauty?

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list
Devlec, do you think you will have competition?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
Definitely from my bank.....that's for sure..
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list
Personally I think it will sell. Rather higher than lower.
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Canada
5404 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list
I would NOT touch that piece, A. It is off grade even though rare B. That market is very thinly traded and there are no outs if you wish to resell. C. 55 K is way better spent on other neat stuff.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list
Pacific, please remember: grading is subjective. and some collectors have more money than brain.
For some it is a contest of who of his / her collector friends spends the most for the rarest coin. Others "just have to have it" no matter the cost.
U are right, the market is thin, but within that group there are some "very heavy players".
and, lets be honest, would anyone of you have thought that a buyer would pay $ 300,000 for a 1936 CAN cent? EVER?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list
Actually I would have paid more but since then it would have come down to a choice between the cent and a house to live in, my wife laid down the law.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1700 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petersun to your friends list
I've never even heard of the website, so I wouldn't have come across such a coin anyway.
Too expensive, and since NFL is not the centre of my collection, it would be a skip no matter what.
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Canada
5404 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list
Me too, on the 1936 Dot Cent! Except for Mrs.N ,who happens too like housing more than coins , I just don't get it. 47 is right though, you get two stupid guys who have crazy money anything can and does happen. I have witnessed in person many times , Spinks, Christies, Stacks -Bowers , Heritage. Live it is great entertainment.
47 is all too correct about the market being thinly traded at the top as well. In Canadian decimal right now, a lot of super stuff is going unsold at auctions. Maybe the Landon hoard will be very telling in which direction the high end collector coin market will go. Could very well be worth a stop in Toronto in February for the Legacy Sale. Now if I can just convince Mrs. N about a couple of hundred thou......................!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2428 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list
CASE IN POINT...2005 P Non Magnetic
Couple of guys duking it out and end up paying $19-$21K
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list
Bonhams has been around for decades and was called Phillips before the name change..

They battle it out with Christies around the world for high end collections of everything ...and especially art..
Forum Kid
Canada
1074 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vancouver IslandCoinKid to your friends list
it is a 1865 and not a 1862... very nice indeed, I may have to wait until I am done high school, pay off my student loans, buy more clipped coins, and then I might...
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2014  12:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PlatinumDuck to your friends list
Nice looking coin! But I'll have to stick with circulation strikes and stay away from the specimen pieces.
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21652 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2014  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list
I'm sure AgCoinAu meant SP62 & SP65, not the years.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2014  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list

The "thin trading" of individual "high end items" at auctions usually has 1 of 2 very specific reasons.
One involves the sale at auction by bidding.
The other is a Pre-made deal.
I know that some coins which were not sold at some certain auctions did change hands a bit later in private deals. And in two cases, were actually "pre-sold" by the original owner to another person before the auction started or concluded. A buy price was agreed on between the 2 and if it sells above that , the two will split the difference. All were purposely priced high for the advertising and promotion they get through the auction house. illegal ? some of you might possibly suggest. NOT at all!!
if it sells, both selling "owners" make good money. if not, it is great Promo for the item and the house. A seller does not need to listen to the auctioneers advise on how to price an item. Maneuvers like this are done all over the world at auctions, however, it is more dominant in some European and SE-Asia Auctions where literally "cash is king" at auctions. The auctioneers are usually part of this "procedure" and get a cut.(yes, even and especially in "conservative" Switzerland and Lichtenstein.)

Then there is the reasonably large, but very private group of High end true collectors around the world. They use agents. This is the group the deal makers above hope will be attracted by a auctions high end stuff. They sell, trade and buy very selectively and seldom show up personally to bid at an auction, or negotiate a deal. They always buy the rarest and the best. These are the "thin sellers and buyers" with very deep pockets and a "I want it no matter the cost" attitude. Many know each other or of each other. Sometimes dealers or brokers are involved.
This is the is the group with literally unlimited funds that bids an item into the stratosphere. Usually the agent- buyers act for Owners from Russia, China, Eastern Europe countries and South east Asia.
Pacific, you (should) most likely know a few agents or actual owners. It would be a good thing.

Now, before you guys "jump" all over this post, please think about it and ask yourself questions...
There are too many to ask.. and there are few solid answers and tons of speculations.
Like: who is the new owner of item X sold for 200,000 ? etc, etc.
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5404 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2014  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list
@ 47P7 you are right about collusion and pre made deals to a point. It used to be quite common years ago with some of the major US and English auctions. In some jurisdictions it is not legal and in others frowned upon for sure. That said it was done and I have personal experiences, that I do not care to elaborate on. I find the practice not kosher shall we say. But as you stated it happens.
As to knowing a few agents or owners yes indeed I do. I have used agents myself and have acted as an auction bidding agent for buyers who as you stated do not want to be known. In my career I have been honoured to have handled five world class collections via private treaty, four of them completely on my own and one early in my career with another dealer that was covered extensively in CCN back in the early 1980's. Of these collections two were Newfoundland, and two were World collections and one was Canadian plus World. Most of these clients were very private in the assembly and disposal of their holdings, with the exception of the late R.C. Willey( Noted numismatist and with Jim Haxby and Charlton author of several titles on Canadian coins). This collection was disposed of quite publicly in the early to mid 1990's. Bob was also a very dear friend as well as a client, and this was and is the "feather in my cap" and highlight of my numismatic experience.
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