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1983 1c DDR-002, WDDR-002, 1-DR-002 Any MS-65+ Trade?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2015  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
These DD's are from dies mid way through their life span, but very nice nonetheless.
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 Posted 05/10/2015  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list
Hey tenhulz,I know where you are coming from,it can be pretty frustrating starting out and very confusing-I'm not sure about your quarter pic it's a little blurry for me but if you look at kens DDR's you will also notice the overall size of the devices-machine doubling would reduce the overall size of original device you'll notice on these they are not reduced at all-I had a lot of trouble with these starting out but after finally finding a few there was no mistaking the difference-a true strong doubled die truly jumps out at you
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 Posted 05/10/2015  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Tenhulz,
After looking my images over, I can see were this could be confusing. My coin is a doubled die and yours is not. If you look at the cent, particularly on the lower right corners of NIT of UNITED, the serif on the center bar of the E of CENT and the upper right serif of the N of CENT; you will see the tell-tale notches of a true doubled die. The rest of the doubling is also obvious as hub doubling (doubled die) to the experienced variety specialist but I can see where it could be confusing. Your coin is one that would have confused me in the fist year I began specializing in die varieties but I had a lot of help which made the learning curve fast.

Hang in there and one day you'll say, oh ya now I see wha they were talking about. In the meantime you will run into some deceptive doubling.
Edited by koinpro
05/10/2015 11:53 pm
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 05/10/2015  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Rackster,
Thanks but I'm not looking to buy one, I have ten of them that grade MS65RD and MS66RD. I've had them for 10 years and considering selling a few. Just trying to see if any kind of price has been established.
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United States
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 Posted 05/11/2015  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Coop, can you get Tenhulz some comparison images of some tough ones to tell apart? I can really see where his 1983-P quarter would be a tough call for many newer variety guys (and gals). The 1983s are often tough for beginners in this field.
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tenhulz to your friends list
Thanks for the education, and now I see what you mean on the 83 cents letters after you pointed each out. That helped. Much appreciation for this forum for sure!! I'm not giving up, and know there will be light at the end of the tunnel.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
The reverse of the quarter is showing extreme die wear. Note the lines you mentioned. The lines in the field are called die flow lines. It is from a VLDS die. The areas that are catching your eye is the wave of a new Die Deterioration that is moving toward the rim. Note how it only happens on certain devices and not all devices. The ones that have open water towards the rim are the ones making this area. Note the "E P" on the EPU. You see it there and also on the "S" in STATES. If this were hub doubling, then all the devices in that area would show the same amount of doubling.
Here is what hub doubling could look like on a Washington quarter:
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
I don't see hub doubling going on with your quarter, just extreme die wear. On the LDS/VLDS dies they are often hard to tell what was on the dies in the earlier die states. Hope this helps.
Edited by coop
05/11/2015 1:58 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 05/11/2015  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Coop, I think you better make it clear that the quarter you are showing is a doubled die -- a 1967 DDR-001 if I'm not mistaken. I think your statements could be confused as describing this coin as DDD.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Added a bit of more pointed information. Thanks Ken.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2015  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
What do you think of this image Ken?
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
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 Posted 05/11/2015  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Coop, it looks good to me
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 05/12/2015  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Ken: I took your two images of the EPU and put them together.
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 Posted 05/12/2015  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Best job of stitching two images together that I've ever seen.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2015  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Thanks for post the images. They all turned out great. It is hard to get goo images of the 002 to show the spread. Looks like the die was really worked over with what appears as a wire wheel? There are even scratches on the tops of the devices:
1983-1c-DDR-002,-WDDR-002,-1-DR-002-Any-MS-65+-Trade?
You can see the die scratches on the field that also go upward on the devices.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1781 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2015  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Could have been worked over by a wire brush or aluminum oxide cloth. Getting good shots of this variety were difficult and I'd still like to have better.
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