1982 P Lincoln Cent With Possible "Rim Cud" Help Needed.

Sorry, I am just getting the hang of this... Posted a couple pictures of the reverse, hopefully they're good enough! I had to use my phone camera and the lighting is less than ideal...

In most cases or my minds eye, I try to become the die and not so much the coin. The result of a coins strike in most cases is derived from the dies state, condition or location.

When the hammer die is misaligned the actual design rim is now moved inward over the planchet to be struck. To me this equals loss of containment to one side of the dies strike. Thats pending the collar is still providing outward containment, which equals or maintains the diameter. Just because the hammer die is misaligned, this does not allow or equal more outward flow, but more upward along with back flow effect.

This all happens in a fraction of a second, and can result or be one of the more common causes in an appearance of a second or false rim due to the die being shifted over leaving a gap and more area to (back) fill. Sometimes the back fill completes filling the gap and sometimes not. That would depend on applied pressure or time allowed for the strike.

Technically a gap like this could be called a fin, because there is a means for material to flow upwards into the gap. Though I think a true Rim Fin is tapered thin and extends or extrudes upwards from the outer edge of a properly or a near perfect aligned strike.

A rim Cud to me should rise above the actual design rim as thats the area that has been chipped or broken away from the die itself. False rims from misalignment strikes do not equal broken die, though can result along side of one.

Note the actual design rim should not be, but often is confused with the false rim on misaligned strikes. A partially filled gutter, gaps or folded pushed over outer rim anomalies are not considered true rim Cuds to me, unless it includes and rises above the actual design rim itself.

Note: below (die image) the design rim around the outer edge or parameter. Thats where the break needs to be contained to be considered a rim Cud. If the field is involved then considered a full blown or regular Cud.

If the die is misaligned showing a false rim the facts remain the same for me to conclude rim Cud. The outer edge of the die itself needs to be broken. Except now you have to take into account the actual design rim is moved inward and the false rim is not actually part of that. Thanks, Doug.

I coming to a new line of thought on these. Note the rim on this die? Do you see the step down on the edge of the die? What if there were some grease in that location? Would that not affect that area? It could prevent the inside edge of the rim to be affected. But in order for this to happen it would need something to hold the grease in place during the strike. That is accomplished by the collar holding the grease in that location. To me that sounds more plausible for the rise of the rim on the inside part of the coin. If it were broken off the die, then the higher than the outside rim? Thus when see on Cuds the extra height on the outside edge of the coin because of the missing metal. (but this is something I've been mulling in my mind) No one else has considered this that I know of yet.

I would think the effect of grease in the design rim would be no different than grease in the field. It would not make the materiel rise up, but rather prevent the development of the design rim same as if grease filled in the bust or other device.

I think grease in the dies design rim is less likely to be contained as its easy to clean off and secondly has an escape route between the die and collar.

The grease caught in the field is trapped and has nowhere to go. Thanks, Doug.

adding if it did manage containment it would appear as a depression on the coins rim, not raised on it.

Interesting. So maybe grease filled/finning/rim Cud but all options seem debatable...

Was trying to find two decent obverse and reverse die images to make an overlay and ran across the below illustration which may suffice.

If any one of the four elements is out of alignment, worn, inadequate or broken then I would think containment is or can be breached. Thanks, Doug.



Image from http://www.1881o.com/dictionary.html

Adding: I'd like to think it all seals completely when properly aligned, but think it has to have some ever so slight clearance to wiggle.

Thanks, Doug! Good work!