Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Would You Get This 1994 LMC Graded, And Is Abe Spiked Or Is He Speared?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 19 / Views: 2,704Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
Okay thanks everybody. I believe and accept what you're saying, but can I rant for a second? Ha, and please, for the sake of this newbie's threadbare morale at this point, let me know if you've encountered this crisis at any point in your time in the hobby.
--Almost every day in the +/-3 months since I first decided to look at my dad's jar of wheaties, I have found myself utterly baffled by examples of what DOES or DOESN'T add monetary value. This 94 Lincoln is only the most recent example, but a good one. Here I am squinting WITH magnification to see if there is any doubling in the columns of the reverse, then just when I'm about to chuck it in the 're-roll' tub, my NAKED EYE catches a spike/spear/slice/lightening bolt, whatever you want to call it, going right through the skull of our (arguably) most beloved President. I fetch the magnifier again, note that it's definitely a die crack and not a scratch from circulation use, I note that the coin looks pretty good for a quarter-century "in the wild," and find other examples online, confirming this wasn't a one-off. I've already learned other examples of the hard lessons likely encountered by most if not all newbies (mistaking DDD and MD for actual doubled dies, getting excited about an over-zealously corrected die clash, etc.), but even still, I have to admit I let my fantasies fly with this head spike.
Now OF COURSE I appreciate honest answers and lessons learned even when they are disappointing, and I appreciate that at least there are groups interested in cataloging various cases of "weird but not marketable" but I wonder if I'll ever wrap my head around the reasoning behind the market. WHY can an error on some mundane device (like a letter or part of a building) and virtually impossible to see, be more valuable than an obvious, stark, and COOL one? I mean, if I someday find myself getting a bazillion bucks for a coin because two letters are 'this' far apart versus 'that,' or whatever minuscule difference, I'm not going to ask the buyer "What is wrong with you?" but I can't deny I'll be thinking it.
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
Oh, and I almost forgot--while searching for sales of this die crack, I came across this PCGS listing of 'speared bison' sales (link below). --Not life-changing money, but at least worth grading if the coin is at least a MS63. So what makes 'speared bison' more desirable than 'spiked Abe'? http://www.PCGScoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/84159
Pillar of the Community
United States
6116 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
Price is dictated by demand, but what causes that demand can vary widely. Rarity is one thing that shapes demand, but not the only thing. Popularity is probably more important. There is no lack of 1955 doubled dies, thousands have been graded, but they easily fetch $1000. There is only one known Retained Cud on any 1935-D Lincoln Cent, but it recently sold for $19.50. See? Not rarity but demand. So finding things in demand is where the money is. Which means, in general with Lincolns, looking for CherryPickers' Guide varieties on MS-64 grade or higher coins because these are in demand by the folks looking to put together registry sets. Almost every coin I've ever found worth over $50 was in uncirculated condition, as that is where the demand is.

As for the whole "speared" thing vs "spike" thing...that's easy. A Spike Head is a specific error type defined more or less as a die crack that goes from the rim and enters (not stops at) the head. They can look like anything and all will be Spike Heads. A "speared buffalo" or "speared eagle" or "spitting horse" are all just things people made up to say what a die crack or die gouge or something else looks like as it relates to the design. There was a thread on these about a year ago and I put up photos of my "falling coconut" die chip on a quarter. They are kinda neat, and can become quite popular if they are the focus of an article in a coin magazine where people can become more widely aware of the them. They have very little numismatic value but can command some high prices.

Anyway, that's sorta the story. Lots more to it, but if you are scanning coins in bank rolls looking to make some cash I'd call that a long shot. Other than a couple like 99 Wide AM, 84 DDO-001, 83-D DDO-001, 95-D DDO-003 most anything you find isn't going to net much profit. Most do it because it is honestly like finding bits of treasure, and to collect them. But seriously, we all started out finding a bunch of MD and now there are some here that consistently find some seriously good coins. It's a progression and once you get it down it's actually quite possible to find a truly top coin every now and again. The coin I found and posted last night, 1987-D RPM-003 lists at $60 for MS-63, so they're out there.
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
Yeah I get WHAT the trends are, just don't understand the 'WHY's, which I guess you'd have to ask literally each person considering making a purchase. I don't buy coins at all but if I did, I would pay more for this coin than a 99 Wide AM, any day. I think I just managed to stumble into the weirdest hobby in the world, from my perspective. I keep wondering if I'll still be doing it, say a year from now, or if I'll look back and not recognize who I was during this time. It feels like an addiction to keep trying, keep looking, almost like lottery tickets (which I have never bought), but with at least the delusion that I can increase my odds in ways you can't with lotteries (e.g. knowledge).
Pillar of the Community
United States
2376 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list
Not to put a damper over your excitement but had I been in it for profit when I first started I probably wouldn't still now be flipping coins under a loupe , thirty years later.
The value of my good finds is fun to find out but it's just a way to keep score. The value of the usual find is to me the fun and excitement of that first glimpse.
In all these years I think I have sold two variety/error coins but given away many more than that.
I hope you can find that "thing" That keeps you going because this is a super hobby

Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
But isn't any sale over face value a profit? That's another thing about it that makes it better than true gambling; lottery tickets aren't refundable but coins are, 100%. It's more an investment of time though. I am thinking I will try to sell lots, not individual coins.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4406 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2018  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list

Quote:
But isn't any sale over face value a profit?


Theoretically, yes. But in reality, not so much.

The amount of time it takes to find these coins, take pictures of them, list them on ebay, ship them, and actually find a seller only to get the $1 leftover after ebay fees really isn't worth it.

The time put into this is not worth the minimal profit unless you enjoy it, or you are a collector.

I strongly believe that going into this hobby with the sole purpose of profit is a terrible idea. After being on this forum for two years I have learned most people who are concerned only about profits and value seem to quit soon after they start. The people who stick with the hobby are interested in collecting and/or "the hunt" of looking for errors and varieties. Selling and profits are, and should be, secondary.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5193 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2018  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uruman to your friends list
Tanman2001
Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2018  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
As for the value, it's all in the demand. The 1937 "3 legged" Buffalo nickel sells for high prices, but it's only a case of a grease filled die/overpolished die. Yet a Lincoln Cent with a similar amount of Struck Through Grease will sell for far, far less than the 1937 nickel. It's the demand that drives up the prices.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2018  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
--Almost every day in the +/-3 months since I first decided to look at my dad's jar of wheaties, I have found myself utterly baffled by examples of what DOES or DOESN'T add monetary value.

You're in good company. I've been studying and/or collecting coins for over 50 years and I still don't understand why people pay significant sums for some items.
Edited by Conder101
11/12/2018 08:07 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2018  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Because they see what they think is valuable.
Would-You-Get-This-1994-LMC-Graded,-And-Is-Abe-Spiked-Or-Is-He-Speared?
When they go to sell them, they come here, and get mad at us telling them it is worth what it says on the coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3667 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2018  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
First,

Please indulge a coin curmudgeon for a few minutes.

In local shows, I've been able to sell groups of minor die chips (plugged 9, plugged 5, BIE, plugged B, skirted R, etc.) in bags of 10 or 12 for $4.00. Ditto for most of the other minor errors and varieties. People buy them because they are different and interesting and cheap, and for some people, it starts them on the great scavenger hunt. That's why I even bag them and sell them for so little, to encourage new collectors.

The fun is in the collecting. For many of us, it's a return to our roots, when we were kids and looked through change at the kitchen table for treasures needed to fill Whitman albums. Today's circulating coinage is ugly garbage. (Sorry for the bluntness.) Zinc cents are future piles of Zinc Oxide for lifeguards' noses, and little else. CNC clad coins are boring, and the designs are far too long in the tooth. The other coins are just NCLT. The state, territory, and parks quarters were initially interesting, but have lost the excitement with endless production of endless series. There are simply too many minted and lots of very poor designs (e.g., Wyoming State Quarter) that are hastily executed to meet production schedules. The "cool coins" disappeared from circulation decades ago. It is unlikely that we will have significant coin redesigns because everything is political now and, except for quarters and dimes, circulating coins themselves are unwanted dinosaurs in the modern economy.

What remains is the opportunity with error and variety collecting to go beyond date and mint and find something that few others have found. The thrill of the hunt and the joy of the discovery are what keeps the hobby alive.

According to Dr. Wiles, no collector has yet assembled a complete collection of repunched mint marks or a complete set of doubled dies in the Lincoln series. Even short sets are a real challenge. Try assembling a common date set (1934-58) of Lincoln cents with BIEs. Try assembling a full set of the Avogadro's Number of 1960-D repunched mint marks. Both are nearly impossible. The fun is in the challenge. Let the coins-are-a-business crowd chase their cash, and enjoy collecting as a hobby again.

Exit curmudgeon mode.
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2018  02:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
I understand what you're saying, but it must be some kind of inherent personality difference because I feel exactly the opposite. I've never been able to appreciate challenge for challenge's stake, leaning instead toward the exotic and beautiful whether achieved through much effort or not. I'm that person who thinks marathon runners are nuts, and although I have climbed mountains the reward is 100% the view at the summit, which I would be just as happy to drive up to if I could.
I never had the kitchen table of coins experience you describe as a kid. The thing I still do that links back to my roots is aquarium fish, raised them since I was little and now catch/buy/breed many wild and domesticated species, and ship them all over the country. But even in this hobby, the goals are somewhat bifurcated between those who like what is challenging and those who like what they like. For instance, there are a lot of people who consider a solid black guppy or solid white betta holy grails, because they are extremely hard to breed and therefor hard to find. Me, I just think, well there are plenty of other beautiful species you can get that are solid black or white, without breaking your wallet. Meanwhile guppies and bettas are the most colorful and diverse fish there are, so if I'm going to stretch my budget for them it'll be gonzo psychedelic looking ones! And luckily there are a good number of other aquarists who agree; they are my customers and trade buddies.
In short, I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand why with coins the market seems to be so much more 'challenge'-skewed. The existence of collectors whose goals are all about completing this or that series or set doesn't surprise me, but the relative absence of people seeking the sheer 'weird' --that does surprise me and disappoints me, I must admit.
Pillar of the Community
United States
520 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2018  03:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rabbithole1 to your friends list
Fortcollins..I absolutley loved your comment! It certainly is the thrill or "treasure hunt" for me. Id rather have a hobby I enjoy rather than just playing lottery tickets. It does bring back childhood memories ..and deep down (just like when I was a kid) I feel anything is possible..and that in itself makes it so enjoyable. If I set a goal to complete a set and I achieve it..its very rewarding ..even if its only wheat cents. :)
Valued Member
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2018  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list
I should clarify, I DO thoroughly enjoy this kind of hunting; I just don't seem to have any interest in having the coins for myself. I don't understand it.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 19 / Views: 2,704Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums