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1916 Lincoln Wheat Cent - Prooflike Toned Coin

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 Posted 04/12/2019  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
Just getting back to reading the replies. I do the cooking around here and people were hungry!

First, thanks for the kind words and great comments. Honestly I just picked this up on ebay last Saturday for $17 including shipping. I liked it for the price and a friend of mine collects toned wheats so figured that at worst he'd give me that much for it and all would be good. But it had just enough characteristics of a proof that I thought, well, it's almost impossible but maybe. And after getting it in hand it is in much higher grade than I expected.

So, guessing I should send it in to PCGS and let them grade it for whatever they determine it to be. Can't really lose as it'll be a high grade toner at the very least.

But while I see a few minor die markers listed in the copied text above, is there a page dedicated to the die markers for this year? If there were only two die pairs I would expect this to be out there somewhere an in great detail.

I can see about taking more detailed images, but would really like to have some die markers to go after if I'm going to do that rather than just random close ups of things.

Again, thanks everyone, it is appreciated.
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 Posted 04/12/2019  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
A couple more images, but not sure what I'm looking for. The coin does not have the marker listed as going from the U to the last T of TRUST. I don't see a broken die in the upper right of the O of GOD. But also putting in an image of LIBERTY to show how crisp the lettering is overall.


1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
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 Posted 04/12/2019  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
Good news TB, it was at least struck with proof dies. It was struck with proof pairing #1 or PRObv-001 and PRRev-001. There is an easy way to tell. The first coin #430 is the second die pair used and is the first trueview link. Pay attention to the obverse die alignment. Now check the second trueview link, that misalignment look familier? As far as I can find no BS coins were made with pair #1. I can confirm this easily if you would humor me. Can I get a closeup of 1916, specifically the '9', as well as the word TRUST and the letters US of trust? I'm chechking the die scratches. The first scratch in trust isn't strong on later die state examples. But the marker in the 9 is. Also, 1916 matte proofs were known for less sharp rims, reference the second trueview link.
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 Posted 04/12/2019  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
Getting more interesting. I'd even love for a proof die BS, but we shall see what you come up with. The MAD does seem to match.

Pics as requested. Sorry about all those bits of dusty stuff on there but I'm not brushing anything off the coin just dealing with it as it is.

Two lighting angles on the date.


1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
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 Posted 04/13/2019  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
Well all die markers match, I have side by sides if you want them. It appears to be an unlisted stage, I'll call Stage C die markers are there, just very weak. Regardless it is made using proof dies, and a known die mating. Based on the strike itself being slightly of lower quality and lacking traditional square rims, I think this is a matte proof. Even if not, it deserves a slab, but I do think you have one.
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 Posted 04/13/2019  12:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Now the question is, NGC or PCGS for getting it in the slab?

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 Posted 04/13/2019  12:52 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
Now wouldn't that just be cool squared! Yes, please do send along the side-by-sides as I am interested in seeing those as well. Just love to hear that you are seeing the markers, as that is pretty key to the whole thing.

So the next question is, which TPG does best with possible matte proofs? Certainly want to run it by the best folks for such a thing, but likely it'll end up getting sent to the specialist either way no matter who I send it to.

(I see Jimbucks beat me to the question!)
Edited by tropicalbats
04/13/2019 12:53 am
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 Posted 04/13/2019  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list

1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin

I've got better then these, but I'll make those in the morning
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 Posted 04/13/2019  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
The 1916 coins all showed the strongest dev a designs. The Mercury dime has the strongest design compared with other years . The cent as well has the strongest design compared with other years why? I don't know unless it was for the unveiling of the new designs oh the Dimes, halves and Quarters that year? But with the die wear on this example I feel it is a business strike coin.
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 Posted 04/13/2019  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Gorgeous coin and I hope for the best TB but I have to agree with Coop. Lots of die pitting on the reverse as well.

Not real familiar with these much but the die scratch on the S (TRUST) of your coin appears to be higher than the marker image Grapecollects posted. The die scratch marker to the right of S appears to be a continuation of the die scratch between US. TB's coin & comparison image seems to be higher.

I also wonder if the dings/damage (tip of nose, jaw, N of CENT) would get it a "Details" grade.

Best of luck whichever route you take.
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We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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 Posted 04/13/2019  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list
Anxiously await the opinion of the TPG.

Neat coin.

Thank you for sharing. Please post results when you can.
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 Posted 04/13/2019  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list
Pretty much in full agreement on the Coop/Petespockets comments. Certainly seems a late die stage for a proof that struck very few coin, and I personally am not picking up the die markers. Also quite worried about the grade with those dings. That said, I'll take a 1916 BS made with proof dies in "details" or "scratched" over not having one. And if I ever decide to sell it I think the photos will show the coin is quite nice even if the label says details.

Still hoping to get a chime in here from someone with advice on which TPG would handle this better. My default is PCGS unless otherwise noted that NGC would be better.

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 Posted 04/13/2019  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Maybe take it to a coin shows and see if one of the grading companies have a table there?
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
Matte Proof:
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
Edited by coop
04/13/2019 3:16 pm
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 Posted 04/13/2019  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Well, you can learn something new everyday. For me today I learned that there were Matte proof Buffalo nickels. Who knew? There were 6 total. 1913 type 1 and 2, 1914, 1915, 1916 and 1936. So I made some images so you can see them and some have a comparison with a normal and matte proof (1916) and 1936 Brilliant proof and matte proof and 1937 brilliant proof and a cameo.
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
1916-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent---Prooflike-Toned-Coin
Edited by coop
04/13/2019 9:28 pm
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 Posted 04/14/2019  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Man-o-man those are some gorgeous Buff's. Thanks for sharing all those in one thread.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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