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Replies: 52 / Views: 4,232 |
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: I do not support getting rid of the cent or the nickel. As is your right.  Quote: How about another topic? There are over 400k topics you can choose to read other than this one. Just saying.  Quote: This one is beyond old. It will die when the penny dies.  Quote: The impact on federal spending and the budget is infinitesimally small. It all adds up though. 
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: Okay then, how about we get rid of the stupid gold dollar coins that nobody uses? Stop printing the dollar and they will flood out from the vaults. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
674 Posts |
I wouldn't say no one uses them, I spend them on occasion. 
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Valued Member
United States
232 Posts |
Do people give you a strange look and ask, "What the heck is this?" Especially if it's a young 'un. They don't use cash, let alone coins, so they've probably never seen one.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
Quote:
I have said it before, Federal legislation would override this; not that we are any closer to getting the folk in DC to do something than we are those in Trenton.
From https://www.usmint.gov/about Quote: The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals, If the mint, by new Fed law or otherwise, were to refuse to make coins that are necessary to facilitate state laws, the mint's mission would need to change from one of serving the wants and needs of the people to one of deciding what the people should have. That represents a dramatic shift, perhaps one that is arguably now needed.
Edited by nick10 05/17/2023 2:21 pm
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
The Mint does not serve the States. Congress can pass the law, the Mint would have to oblige, and the States would have to suck it up. That is how a federal government works.
It is Congress, not the Mint that would be making this choice for the people. The Mint could try to get away with nixing the cent, but Congress would probably intervene. If we want to get rid of the cent, it is Congress that needs to take action.
Keep in mind, the Mint does not do anything directly to satisfy the demand for circulating coins (unless someone is foolish enough to buy them direct from the Mint at a premium). It is the Federal Reserve, which tries to satisfy demand from the banks, which tries to satisfy demand from their customers. The Mint is just the mint and they have to provide what the FR wants so long as the law allows it.
In the past I have joked that the Mint would just "lose the order" for cents from the Fed, or the Fed could tell the banks to beat it, but neither has the courage (or reason) to do so.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
Quote: The Mint does not serve the States. But what are States if not groups of people the mint, according to its mission, serves? Most dictionaires define state as "a people permanently occupying a fixed territory bound together by common habits and custom into one body politic" or similar wording. The mint's self-stated mission is to serve those people. Yes. Congress could change that, of course, but such presents a radical departure from how the coinage system has operated for the past 200+ years.
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
I am sorry, but that is not how it works. We have a federal system with a representative government. There is no direct democracy. The "American People" served by the Mint are the representatives of the people, not the people directly. And it is only the federal representatives in Congress, not those state legislatures or other local governments.
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Valued Member
United States
125 Posts |
Well, if they quit making the cent and nick, it's an instant bump in prices. businesses will price goods such that rounding will ALWAYS be in their favor.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
In European countries where the smaller denominations have been abolished, rounding rules have been published such that it comes out to a wash at the end of the day. But in my opinion, simply eliminating the 1¢ (and perhaps 5¢) coins is not a solution. We should have a complete reform of the coinage. Acknowledging that the purchasing power of the money has declined drastically from the days of the 1792 Mint Act, and that the old Spanish Colonial "piece of 8" no longer means anything to anyone in economic terms, I propose to eliminate the "cent" denomination from circulation, leaving the "dime" or tenth of a dollar as the smallest denomination, and that the coins should be the following :
- Half dime
- One dime
- Two dimes
- Half dollar
- One dollar
- Two dollars
- Half eagle
- Eagle
- Two eagles
The denominations in italics, I think, and certainly the double-eagle, would for the time being be minted primarily as commemoratives, with only limited circulation, as the current half dollar. The $5, $10, and $20 paper would thus not immediately be withdrawn. The example of the ¥500 coin in Japan, however, says that we shouldn't count out at least the half-eagle. The $1 and $2 paper, however, would be withdrawn. For the six general-circulation denominations, I would take them in pairs, half-dime/dime, double-dime/half-dollar, dollar/double-dollar, with each pair having the same metallic composition, design, and edge treatment, differentiated only by size and denomination inscription. For the designs I would select especially beautiful ones from past US coinage. For the dollar and double-dollar, Gasparro's Young Liberty, paired with the Apollo 11 "Moon eagle", as originally proposed for what became the SBA dollar, is the obvious choice — but make it actually polygonal this time! 13 sides on the dollar for the 13 original states is a good choice, and the (larger, let's not do like Australia) double-dollar presumably 15 or 17 with no particular significance. For the double-dime and half-dollar, probably the Standing Liberty (from the circulation quarter, although the one from the sesquicentennial quarter-eagle is also a good choice) for the obverse. I would give them a lettered edge, a proper one with sharp rims. How the US Mint has managed to make such a mess of the lettered edge on the yellow-clad dollar coins escapes me. That leaves a reeded edge for the half-dime and dime. The dollar and double-dollar would be roll-clad, and the smaller denominations probably just solid metal. No ring-and-plug bimetallics! And I wouldn't go with plated steel either. Ideally copper-nickel and copper-nickel-zinc alloys with compositions such that the existing coins could be melted together in simple weight ratios to provide the necessary metal.
Edited by publius 06/15/2023 12:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6448 Posts |
So you'd eliminate the nickel and then add a Half Dime? You, sir, have a bright future in Congress!
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: Well, if they quit making the cent and nick, it's an instant bump in prices. businesses will price goods such that rounding will ALWAYS be in their favor. Doubtful. Electronic sales, which are well north of 50%, probably closer to 80% of all sales will still be to the cent. The cent will still exist electronically. Quote: So you'd eliminate the nickel and then add a Half Dime? You, sir, have a bright future in Congress! A half-dime would be cheaper to make than the current nickel and likely generate seigniorage.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6448 Posts |
Inflation will gradually reduce the demand for cent coins, which will in turn reduce the amount of money wasted on manufacturing them. Businesses would probably happily eliminate them, but you never know when some state, county, city is going to slap a 0.5% sales tax increase on you.
Nationally, the penny will never be eliminated because it's a psychological turning point. Congress would need to admit that our currency has been devalued so much that we can just knock off a zero, South America-style.
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: Nationally, the penny will never be eliminated because it's a psychological turning point... It is a shame. We managed to get rid of the Half Cent without much trouble, but I suppose the information age makes it more difficult to slip those thing past us now. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
Quote:So you'd eliminate the nickel and then add a Half Dime? You, sir, have a bright future in Congress! I hold on to some hope that the sum of money represented still has enough utility to warrant a coin, but a small one, perhaps the size of the current dime. Spending about three months a year in Munich since about 2016, I have observed that the 1 & 2 cent coins I get from circulation are almost exclusively of German type, and usually brand new shiny from the Munich mint. The 5¢ however are much more often from other countries, and dulled by circulation. From this I infer that the minting of the 1¢ & 2¢ should be stopped, because they are of no real use. People do not seem to pay them away when they receive them. In fact, in a railway station in Paris, I saw a machine which accepted only 1¢ & 2¢ pieces, and dispensed single sticks of chewing gum. According to the placard on the machine, its purpose was to stop people discarding these coins, and thus save the expense of continual new coinages. Of course, a further problem is that, if you save the 1¢ & 2¢ coins you get rather than immediately paying them away, the banks in Germany mostly will not take them on deposit or in exchange for paper, whether rolled or loose. In fact it's a problem for the small businessman, because the banks don't like to give them out, either! I know a bookshop which, every few months, runs a promotion : bring in rolled 1¢, 2¢, & 5¢ coins, and get €1,25 in store credit for every €1 in face value. It's one thing for the Mint to make coins that cost more than face value, if they'll be used in circulation many years. It's entirely another for the merchant to have to pay above face!
Edited by publius 06/15/2023 6:53 pm
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Replies: 52 / Views: 4,232 |
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