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ATB Five Ounce Silver Coins

 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1071 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  11:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Teach to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So I have heard some negatives about the 5 oz ATBs and there is some talk about maybe the mint will stop minting this series. If they stop a series at the beginning of a series, will the coins already minted and circulated be worth more in the long run? Anybody have some thoughts on this issue?

Also, how many times has the mint put a halt to a faltering program? How common of a practice is this?

How likely will it be this series will come to an end?
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United States
23519 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting questions, which I'm not qualified to answer. I will venture the opinion that if mintage is halted, values will go through the roof.
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8784 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is also plenty of discussion about Congress/US Mint halting the Presidential dollar coin program.

I suspect that if these programs are halted, initially demand for the existing coins will rise as public interest is piqued, but then would go back down to normal levels after the news has set in for a while. Each existing coin's mintage total wouldn't be affected by a cancellation of the series, just the total number of minted coins in the pool of the series.

I don't know what the frequency is of canceling such a program... I don't believe there have been series like what we're seeing recently with the changing commemorative reverses, so I don't think there's anything to go on, really. Not sure though, just speculation. As with any series, the key dates are going to be the valuable ones, and I would hazard a guess that the 1st 5 in the series, with their relatively lower mintage #'s and occasional finish varieties will command the highest value whether the series sees its intended completion or not. That is, unless they stop minting a coin halfway through the minting process and the mintage of that coin is less than 27k (the mintage of each of the NP1-NP5 pucks), in which case it would be one of the aforementioned key dates/coins anyway.

And, !

Just my 2 cents.
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 Posted 12/05/2011  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, I can tell you one that that definitely WILL happen if they cancel the 5oz ATB series... my wallet will be a lot fatter!

Ah, who am I kidding, I'd find something else to spend it on. :)
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14595 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They can't cancel it without new legislation. It is written into the legislation that authorized the ATB Quarters that they would produce the 5 oz version.
Gary Schmidt
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Just another ill-conceived gimmick coin made for wannabe collectors.

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3433 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fred, BULL. Large coins have been minted by other mints, such as the one kilo Dragon, Panda, Koala and 100 Ruble coins. These are ALL ill conceived gimmicks? And ALLLLL the people the world over (including myself) that collect these are wannabe collectors? I know it doesn't fit into your parameters of what a coin is supposed to be, but just because YOU cant accept it doesn't mean myself and others are wannabes because we have a wider view. Its really annoying being insulted because of that narrow view of yours.

Teach, as was mentioned, another act of congress would be needed to cancel the series, so I dont see that happening any time soon. But if they did, I would imagine it would increase the value at least a little.
Valued Member
United States
155 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VACookey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm really getting sick of being insulted for what I choose to collect. Who gets to decide what coins fall into the "real" collectors category?

Teach, I love the ATB Quarters. I think the designs are beautiful (maybe not all of them but most of them). Even though I haven't gotten the last couple of 5 ouncers, I plan on catching up as soon as possible. I hope they don't end the program.
Valued Member
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Landude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a cool gimmick if you ask me, but I'm new around here.
I'm 2 behind due to the 5 25th Anniversary sets and a big *** Edited by Staff | The bad word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing the filter and making the intended word obvious anyway is completely unacceptable. *** gun safe to keep everything in. I'll be caught up by years end hopefully. And as fast as congress acts we'll see them for a good two or three year at least.
Just my opinion of coarse..
Who knows!
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United States
11880 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO - If the mint is selling out of a product they will continue to produce that product. Yes I know it is not up to the mint to decide what they make .. it is congress. You have to ask, why would the committee that oversee operations want to change/stop, making a product that is making money.

I could maybe see them stopping the bullion version,if sales slow for them, but the collector version (black box w/mm) should have no problem being continued.

It is hard to understand how a person who likes coins, and has the opportunity to see the collector version of these 5oz coins and not want one.

From what I read there were collectors in the teens and 1920's, who could not understand why anyone would want to collect all the new coins that were coming out then.

Some thought, the new coins like Mercury dimes, Standing Liberty quarters, Walking Liberty half dollars and commemorative half dollars looked nice .. but coin collectors should collect only old coins ..

Collectors should try to understand all areas of this hobby. Sure everyone has the right to collect the coin series they like/want, but talking down to others because they might like something different, is just wrong.

Just my opinion

GoldRush58 - GR58
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  04:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time will tell. In five years, if the program exists at all, I predict you'll be able to buy all you want for melt, which is, after all, the purpose of a bullion coin.

Remember around 40 years ago when Panama was one of the first puck sellers? To hear the pitch, they were the next svdb. Today, they sell for $115-130, before ebaY reduces the net down to $100 or so. Beautiful boxed coins with $128 silver content.

Know anyone who stocked up on the philatelic/numismatic SQ covers? Pretty sure they killed those long before the series was over. America's first medals?

I watched several large threads about the ATB pucks. Yes, there were a few collectors, who couldn't answer how many people were likely to commit to collecting a $10,000+ series. Most of the comments were about how much money they would make by flipping them, or the deal they got buying them way under spot.

Insult you? Never my intention. Warning you against tying up thousands of dollars in a dead-end gimmick item when there are other beautiful coins out there begging to be adopted, yes.

I've always been an advocate of "collect what you enjoy", but also "look before you leap".
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4278 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  08:31 am  Show Profile   Check Foxwoods Man's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They can't cancel it without new legislation. It is written into the legislation that authorized the ATB Quarters that they would produce the 5 oz version.


Yes, but they can stop making the P version. The legislation only pertains to the bullion version

I should add that I do NOT think they will cancel the P puck. They presently have an approx. 30-40% markup on the P and will continue as long as they are making money...
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United States
3433 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fred if you were not trying to insult those of us that collect these, you would not have used the words "wannabe collectors". That can be construed in no good way at all, no matter how you try to spin it.

Now, you want to argue value? No problem. But using an example of some item minted in the middle of a third world jungle pit of a country hardly works. Talk about comparing apples and oranges. This is a legal tender coin (though we all know spending it is NOT an option. Can you see that? That would be hysterical. ) so is not a medal. They are absolutely beautiful designs so far, so have plenty of aesthetic value. So given these things plus their relative low mintages, I believe they will hold a premium that may well rise in time.

If I am wrong, I at least have the melt value so have not completely lost my rear end.

Flippers...that happens on any item that garners a lot of interest coming out of the gate. Same thing as is going on with the 25th anniversary sets. I am considering selling my 25th as VACookey has hers. So I can understand that aspect of it, but it doesn't make it any more or less a "gimmick".

So really, not a single thing you have said points to these being a "dead end gimmick". As with the ASE arguments that started when they came out, and still continue, it boils down to you and those that agree with you simply dont like anything that doesn't fit into your particular definition of what a coin should be.

Heres the thing though. I have no problem with you having that outlook. To me it just means that much less competition over what I want to get. I am certianly not going to sit here and insult you saying you are a narrow minded collector.
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United States
1807 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bizybackson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct, the bullion versions are written into the legislation, while the uncirculated P vapor blasted versions are not. As long as there are collectors willing to buy at least 10,000 of each of the upcoming designs, they will continue to be struck and finished, although probably with lower mintages if the price of silver rises. The uncirculated ATB 5oz'ers are not a popular collecting product like annual mint and proof sets, but a niche product for a small minority of dedicated collectors. The same is true for the gold First Spouses and the Platinum AE proof. It does not seem to be a coin the mint likes to produce, as it never is featured in any of the marketing literature the mint sends out.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14595 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yes, but they can stop making the P version. The legislation only pertains to the bullion version

That is true, as far as I can tell the Mint has no legal authorization to make the P collectors version at all.


Quote:
These are ALL ill conceived gimmicks?

I don't know about "ill conceived" because they were all created to make money for the issuing governments which they did. But "gimmicks", yes I would consider them to be gimmicks.
Gary Schmidt
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said, these were put out and promoted for no reason but to make money for the gubmint, just like the numismatic/philatelic covers, famous artist 0.5 and 1.0 oz gold pieces, etc.

Panama a third world country? And you accuse me of being insulting? Their money is worth just a hair less than ours, and has been for 40+ years. Some of their money was even minted in the US.

As I said, collect what you enjoy, just understand that these pucks over the long haul will bring bullion prices. If I werre to collect them, I'd buy them in the aftermarket, and put the money I saved into some nice type coins, or something like the VF+ 1874 IHC I bought today.
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