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Would Anyone Counterfeit A Straits 1/4 Cent?

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Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  7:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Message



As you see, this 1916 1/4 cent (Straits Settlement) shows Edward VII. Since he died in 1910, how did this coin come to be?

Maybe (a) It is a counterfeit or (b), a Mint worker in 1916 accidentally used an old obverse Die or (c) ?

Cheers,
Bill


Moved to World Coins forum - Sap
Pillar of the Community
United States
797 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CGCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That does look pretty odd to me. 1908 was the last 1/4th that used Edward VII.
Neither years are particularly expensive or noteworthy of a coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Only thing that makes some sense is B. Truly a great find, if authentic.
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

The reeded edge, by the way, shows no sign of a seam.

Bill
Pillar of the Community
United States
3252 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like somebody had a similar experience on a different forum about a year and a half ago:
http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php...que-or-fake/

I can't access the pics, though.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1546 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not sure where exactly the 1/4 cents were minted in what years but I believe that some Straits Settlements coins were struck at the Bombay mint. In the late 1960s the Bombay mint reused some of the dies in its possession to make proofs, some of which involved the pairing of dies which produced mules.
While the dies were used mainly to produce proofs I think some specimens were produced. This may be one such coin.
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  06:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
philladelphian -

Your reference to the Coin People post is indeed interesting.

Here are the images from that site -



(I plan to write to the person who posted that message).

Thanks,
Bill
Pillar of the Community
United States
3252 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let us know what comes of it. Though one responder on the thread claimed to have seen other Straits Settlement coins with discordance of date and monarch, my searches for Straits Settlement "mules" only turned up this coin, which is just like yours.
Edited by philadelphian
11/13/2012 09:46 am
Pillar of the Community
778 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2012  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FROM THE OWNER OF THE SILVER EXAMPLE -

"Thanks for your mail. This is highly interesting.
Unfortunately up to now I didn't find out anything new.
One person commented "portrait looks very poor, compared to the legend and crown". You see the same on your coin.

I REPLIED -

Someone on the another forum (CoinCommunity) reminded me that, several years after India became independent, Coin Dies in the old Bombay Mint were used to make Mules. (Mis-matched obverses and reverses). (As I remember now, I had once heard before, but not specifically in regard to the coinage of the Straits Settlement).

It also seems that some Straits Settlement coins were produced in the early 20th century in this very same Mint.

I now feel that these two pieces (silver and copper) were very possibly produced under the auspicious of the Republic of India in 1949. I doubt that very many were made.

Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill

I think the word you wanted was auspices and not "auspicious".

Auspices means "with the support or protection of" which implies that the Indian mint was complicit with their production. I'd rather go with the idea that some employee just decided to "experiment" with old dies (to put it kindly). There would have been no value in producing them at the time as they were worth very little and have appeared to have been picked up on only recently.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1546 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  07:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thai-vic, the Bombay Mint was complicit with their production. Apparently they had a price list of coins that could be re-struck on request.
The Australian government was not happy and had the dies for Australian coins returned once they found out what was going on.
Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that bit of info Mr.T. Is that why they only produced mules to avoid censure from other governments/authorities?
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1546 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, I think most of the coins they produced were correct. My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that most of the restrikes were for Indian coins anyway. I don't know all of the coins that the Bombay Mint struck I would have thought it was mostly Indian coins (Australian coins were only struck there for a couple of years during World War II).
The mulings could well have been unintentional though. British Commonwealth Coins by Remick mentions that coins with VICTORIA QUEEN instead of VICTORIA EMPRESS are the best examples of the mules.
New Member
Malaysia
12 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2020  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chang to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found a rather unusual 1916 mule or forgery with Queen Victoria's effigy rather the Edwards head.First type I have seen. It has reeded edge and weight 2.73g. Normal weight is 2.33g. Has anyone seen this variety before ?.


Valued Member
416 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2020  04:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These 1/4 cents 1916 with mismatched heads show up from time to time.

I myself have a few, they aren't super rare. Asked a more experienced collector about it,
he couldn't give a definitive answer.

So let's just assume they're a curiosity not worth crazy money.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1066 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2020  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not the same coin but similar topic, location and date. Sort of a crude try at making a twenty cent coin from a Half Cent coin.

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