Sweden's New Banknotes - Page 12 - Coin Community Forum

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PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/03/2017 9:44 pm According to a website that I found, there are around two dozen ATMs in all of Stockholm that accept deposits. The spokesperson from Riksbank says that it is much harder to deposit money in Sweden than to withdraw it. Alviksvägen 47, 16753 Bromma Arenavägen 45 Globentorget 2/Globen, 12177 Johanneshov Arlanda Flygplats Sky City, 19045 Arlanda Brommaplan, 16126 Bromma Hamngatan 29, 10722 Stockholm Hamngatan 5, 18532 Vaxholm Hangövägen 21 Värtahamnen, 11542 Stockholm Hornsgatan 56, 11849 Stockholm Karlbergsvägen 12 Odenplan, 11327 Stockholm Kistagången 21, 16421 Kista Medborgarplatsen 21-23, 11872 Stockholm Narvavägen 34, 11522 Stockholm Nybohovsbacken 24 Liljeholmen, 11763 Stockholm Nybrogatan 39, 11439 Stockholm Odengatan 71 Odenplan, 10640 Stockholm Rissneleden 110 Bankhus 90, 17457 Sundbyberg S:t Eriksgatan 32, 11239 Stockholm Sköldvägen 18 Sollentuna centrum, 19147 Sollentuna Söderhallarna 136, 11872 Stockholm Solna torg 4, 17145 Solna Storholmsgatan 9, 12748 Skärholmen Stureplan 2, 11435 Stockholm Tegnergatan 18, 11358 Stockholm Valborgsmässovägen 48 Telefonplan, 12637 Hägersten Vällingbygången 2, 16265 Vällingby Edited by PacoMartin 07/03/2017 9:46 pm Report this Post to the Staff
redlock Pillar of the Community Germany 992 Posts	Posted 07/04/2017 02:24 am Even here in Germany where we still like cash very much (compared to other industrialized countries), it's not that easy to find ATM's that accept cash deposits. The situation in Stockholm doesn't seem so ''bad'' in my eyes. Pretty similar to where I live here in Germany. According to an enviromental report from December 2015 Riksbank ordered 279 Million new 1kr 139 Million new 2kr 107 Million new 5kr So a lot of the new coins are still in their vaults. Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/04/2017 5:33 pm Wow, 525 million new coins combined with the 217 million old 10kr coins. That adds up to 3.264 billion SEK which is a lot less than the 5 billion SEK that was circulating, but I thought they would be more severe in their reduction. Particularly since Korea announced that they would demonetize all their coins in three years. I am still surprised that Sweden hasn't issued a 20kr coin. I don't suppose that environmental report says how many banknotes were ordered? The Riksbank said it is a state secret, even though most Central banks publicize their order quantities. I didn't know if their policy had changed.I am curious of the Riksbank is sitting on 20 million 1000kr banknotes if the economy goes sour. I assume you can still deposit cash at the teller counter in Germany. The problem in Sweden is that the tellers will not accept cash deposits, so ATMs are the only option. Edited by PacoMartin 07/04/2017 5:42 pm Report this Post to the Staff
redlock Pillar of the Community Germany 992 Posts	Posted 07/05/2017 02:24 am Unfortunately, the environmental report was about the new coins only. But now I am wondering if the Riksbank (had to) made one for the new banknotes, too. Probably not. But it might be worth a look. I don't understand either why Sweden doesn't have a 20kr coin instead of the 20kr banknote. I do have some theories though. Yes, if the bank branch has a teller counter one can deposit cash there. However, the number of bank branches that actually have teller counters has been going down here in Germany. Mostly small branches have been losing the teller counter. Edited by redlock 07/05/2017 02:28 am Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/06/2017 03:40 am I specifically wrote to the Riksbank in 2014 to ask them where the production quantities of banknotes was published. She called me (she did not e-mail me) to tell me that they don't release that information. I just took a shot to see if they changed their policy. On 15 March 2006, the Riksbank a 1,000-kronor banknote with a moving image in the striped band. When the banknote is tilted, the picture in the striped band appears to move. At the end of 2013 the notes without the security feature were declared invalid. Year- Millions of 1000kr banknotes 2001 48.358 2002 46.920 2003 45.652 2004 45.561 2005 45.292 2006 42.091 2007 38.648 2008 34.302 2009 31.367 2010 28.565 2011 25.090 2012 21.380 2013 9.709 Since there were only 9.7 million valid 1000kr banknotes at the end of the year, my theory is that they only produced 10 million back in 2006. As that is only 7.5 year most of the banknotes would not have worn out. That would mean that the government was trying to reduce the cash supply at the time. In reality the cash in circulation peaked in 2007. The problem is that the Riksbank has repeatedly maintained that the the loss of easy access to cash is not driven by authorities, but by market forces. Quote: The fact that cash is no longer as easily accessible as before means that the general public finds it more difficult to get hold of money issued by the Riksbank and instead often has to use money in bank accounts with the commercial banks. This is a development steered by market forces and not by the authorities. http://www.riksbank.se/Documents/Ta...1116_eng.pdf That claim is much more difficult to believe if there were 45 million 1000kr banknotes circulating, and you only make 10 million replacement notes. Now the 500kr banknote is circulating at 57 million notes, when once there was as many as 120 million circulating. If we knew production quantities (perhaps 60 million?) then we would know if they were shooting for a goal. Personally, I think governments have a huge desire to switch to a digital currency. There are a lot of advantages to eliminating physical currency. Aiding in tax collection, thwarting illegal syndicates, reducing illegal immigration, catching child support scofflaws, keeping money out of the hands of foreigners, etc. While many citizens would support these measures anyway, it is still easier politically if this effort is seen as purely a reaction to market forces that the government had no control over. The other theory is that the Riksbank is sitting on tens of millions of 1000kr banknotes that they are holding in reserve in case of a real estate crash. But who would like to talk about that in public. ================== The 20kr coin was first issued in Denmark in 1990, and in Norway in 1994. Canada introduced the $1 coin in 1987, and the $2 coin in 1996. What is your theory why Sweden has remained with the 20kr banknote? Edited by PacoMartin 07/06/2017 04:02 am Report this Post to the Staff
UltraRant Pillar of the Community Norway 1358 Posts	Posted 07/06/2017 05:32 am Once again, please try to understand Swedish society. Or Scandinavian in general. It's not 'Murica. Not even close. If you pay with cash here, they'll ask you where your horse and carriage is parked. You'll look like Fred Flintstone, in a way. Being a numismatist, I find that a pity, but even I get forced to just pay electronically everywhere. There's no way to keep the cash flowing... Scandinavia has a huge amount of electronic payment methods around, from cards to apps on your cell phone. There are more and more shops where you can't pay with cash anymore. Banks with human tellers don't exist here anymore. ATMs are very scarce. I have to drive 10 miles to the nearest one. We had a 'bank in shop' principle in a few supermarkets, but they cut out that service due to lack of demand and relatively high costs. You just keep on insisting that there's lots of cash circulating here and that it's the National Bank which forces cash out. It's not. I just bought a bunch of strawberries at a very temporary (only a few weeks a year during the season) pop up market stall (just a bunch of crates and a sunscreen) ran by immigrants who don't speak Norwegian and they didn't take cash, only card or payment via app. That's how it works here. Norway now also has new banknotes. One side is beautiful, the other side looks like it walked out of a Nintendo NES at the end of the 80s. I got hold of a new 200 Kroner note and proudly showed one of my friends yesterday. He looked at me as if I had found some modern replica of an ancient relic. That's how it is here. When it comes to governments willing to go digital... No. Bitcoin happened. Bitcoin is seen here as the root of all evil (typical for money, I guess). I think at least half of your theory of the National Bank sitting on a mountain of banknotes may be correct. Namely that part. The part that it is to save the country in case of an upcoming real estate collapse... well, it works different here on the real estate market than in the USA, again. Do you have any proof for your theory? I have a different theory. Scandinavian countries are too small to have coins or banknotes produced every year. So they rather order a huge bunch at once, as it's cheaper by the bigger quantities, then store them for a while and gradually roll them out over the years, until it's time to order new ones. Norway has been doing this for many years now. That's also what Sweden's doing now with the new 1, 2 and 5 kroner coins. Or do you really think that a country with 8 million citizens suddenly has a need for 100 million to a quarter of a billion coins of each denomination while cash is hardly ever used? I bet they won't issue new coins for a few years now. Same goes for the new banknotes. Sweden maintaining the 20 note is expected behavior from Swedes. We just call them a 'bit slow' in the brain here in Norway. Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/06/2017 9:01 pm I am completely aware that Scandinavia is not America. It is a very common debate here as Scandinavia is brought up frequently in political discussions. I have no doubt that Swedes are happy in many cases to adopt electronic payments, even for roadside stands. Perhaps more than established stores, street venders have more to gain from electronic payments because they have greater security worries and it is more difficult to make change. But people are people everywhere. The urge to keep a little money in a floor safe in your home is a very strong one. The desire to have a nontraceable transaction is also a basic human desire. There is a big discrepancy between Sweden and Norway in the amount of circulating cash considering Sweden has so many more people than Norway. Valid Banknotes only (not coins) 44,258 million SEK 44,726 million NOK 64,321 million DKK I just don't think you can attribute all of that to the "cash is for Fred Flintstone" idea. I truly believe that with 45 million 1000SEK banknotes at the end of 2005, the Riksbank deliberately produced only 10 million 1000SEK banknotes with the security strip which were introduced in March 2006. I can't prove it since production statistics are not public. That was the first in a series of moves designed to reinforce behavior. What about the other 6 currencies in countries part of the EU? It sort of makes sense for them to accelerate transitioning to digital currencies. If for no other reason than it will make the transition to the Euro much easier. If they never transition, it just makes more sense to not be shackled to physical currency that is only usable in such a limited area. Croatian kuna 2,000 € Per Capita Czech koruna 1,967 € Per Capita Polish z#322;oty 1,389 € Per Capita Hungarian forint 1,243 € Per Capita Bulgarian lev 889 € Per Capita Romanian leu 870 € Per Capita Edited by PacoMartin 07/06/2017 9:14 pm Report this Post to the Staff
redlock Pillar of the Community Germany 992 Posts	Posted 07/07/2017 01:57 am Quote: I just bought a bunch of strawberries at a very temporary (only a few weeks a year during the season) pop up market stall (just a bunch of crates and a sunscreen) ran by immigrants who don't speak Norwegian and they didn't take cash, only card or payment via app. That's how it works here. Quite the contrast to Germany. These ''strawberries selling roadside stands'' -- by the way, strawberry season is coming to an end here in the part of Germany where I live -- are ''cash only.'' Considering the (recent) history of these six eastern European countries I think getting them to digital currency will be much more difficult than in the Scandinavian countries. Having read ultra's post I am a little bit shocked how ''cash hating'' these countries have become Edited by redlock 07/07/2017 02:07 am Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/07/2017 8:22 pm Quote: Having read ultra's post I am a little bit shocked how ''cash hating'' these countries have become Valid Banknotes only (not coins) 44,258 million SEK @ 10 million population 44,726 million NOK @ 5.2 million population 64,321 million DKK @ 5.7 million population DKK is 29% more than SEK NOK is 1% more than SEK BIS Currency GDP% USD-2015 (per capita) Japan 19.44% $6,738.65 Hong Kong SAR 15.51% $6,550.01 India 12.25% $195.48 Switzerland 11.76% $9,213.47 Euro area 10.63% $3,570.81 Russia 10.56% $799.51 Singapore 9.55% $4,910.88 Saudi Arabia 8.20% $1,708.47 United States 7.90% $4,433.23 Mexico 6.84% $598.78 Korea 5.56% $1,460.33 Turkey 5.37% $457.94 Australia 4.65% $2,319.93 Canada 4.08% $1,641.02 Brazil 3.82% $282.42 United Kingdom 3.72% $1,583.28 South Africa 2.39% $113.36 Sweden 1.73% $872.15 "Cash Hating" could mean you might very well do every single transaction electronically and keep 10,000kr in your home safe. Norway has much more cash "per capita" than Sweden since it has a little more than half the population. Denmark has as much cash circulating as UK or Canada. So Danes can easily keep some money at home. In my thinking the issue of keeping money at home and being able to make private transactions is a bigger one than how you pay for your strawberries. The proposed digital currency for Sweden may be perceived as a direct threat to commercial banks. I suspect that the national conversation may actually become vitriolic as commercial banks run campaigns. The relative technological backwardness of the 6 other EU countries may not stop them from adopting digital currencies. In reality, I could see them having a great deal to gain. In South America, Ecuador is a very poor country with only a 95% literacy rate, but they are pursuing digital currency more than any other nation in the Americas. Edited by PacoMartin 07/07/2017 11:52 pm Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/08/2017 3:38 pm As of 30 June, 2017 Sweden's old banknotes are no longer valid. New banknotes are worth 44.3 billion SEK. On 30 April 2017, the Riksbank owned 125.7 tons of gold. At the same date, the market value of the gold was 45.4 billion SEK. For the first time in decades a country's gold is worth more than its banknotes. Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/25/2017 08:21 am There are many people who claim that physical cash can be used to be more frugal. They point to the super high debt-to-income ratio in Scandinavia as an example. The ranking is ambiguous, at best. Business Insider: Eurostat compared total debt per household, compared to the average income per household to produce a debt-to-income ratio. It's that data we've used to generate a ranking of the European countries where people have the most debt. 10. Finland — 109.97%. Mortgages make up a particularly large proportion of the household debts held by Finns. According to the country's statistical agency, the average housing loan in Finland is 181% of annual household income. 9. Spain — 112.3%. Earlier in March, the European Commission warned that Spain's economy is being weakened by "large stock imbalances in the form of external and internal debt, both public and private." Household debt plays a huge role in that weakness. 8. Portugal — 116.39%. Towards the end of 2015, total combined debt in Portugal reached 360% of the country's GDP. 7. United Kingdom — 125.87%. According to data from the Money Charity, households in the UK hold an average of £54,080 of debt right now. 6. Sweden — 148.68%. Household debt in Sweden is on the rise which, according to the IMF, is helping fuel a growing housing bubble in the Nordic state. Sweden's economy is currently being defined by persistently low inflation, something the country's central bank is trying to combat with negative interest rates 5. Ireland — 179.55%. Ireland's household debt burden is actually falling at the minute, dropping to €33,530 per capita at last estimate, however, that's nearly twice the average disposable income in the country. 4. Norway — 187.47%. Norway may often by cited as the most prosperous nation on earth, but that doesn't stop its average citizens from being heavily indebted. 3. Cyprus — 202.45%. Cyprus is one of just three countries in Europe to have a debt-to-income ratio for households of more than 200%. 2. Netherlands — 214.45%. Estimates from the Netherlands' national statistical agency put the total debt held by Dutch households at more than €740 billion last year, around €100 billion less than the country's total GDP. Laurent Dubrule/Reuters 1. Denmark — 265.11%. Standing head and shoulders above the rest of Europe, Danes have by far the most debt of anyone on the continent, and in fact, the world. However, the governor of the Danish central bank, Lars Rohde isn't worried. In a 2014 interview he said that the threat to financial stability posed by high household debt is "not serious." http://www.businessinsider.com/euro...right-now-17 Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 07/28/2017 1:52 pm Quote: According to an enviromental report from December 2015 Riksbank ordered 279 Million new 1kr 139 Million new 2kr 107 Million new 5kr So a lot of the new coins are still in their vaults. The above comment seems to contradict the note on the http://www.riksbank.se/en/Notes--coins/Statistics/ Quote: There were coins minted in 2016 in denominations of 1, 2 and 5 krona. The number of coins minted in 2016 was significantly more than previously as the Riksbank introduced a new coin series. The exact amount of coins cannot be reported for security reasons. I can't imagine what sort of "security reason" there would be to make it dangerous to print the number of coins produced. While it is possible that Sweden ordered all the coins that it is going to need for decades those numbers in the "environmental report" seem awfully high. As of end of June 2017 (circulation figures) 96 million 1kr 59 million 2kr 45 million 5kr Edited by PacoMartin 07/28/2017 1:55 pm Report this Post to the Staff
redlock Pillar of the Community Germany 992 Posts	Posted 07/29/2017 10:14 am First of all, I find it odd, strange and also hilarious that a democratic country of the First World in this day and age feels the number of coins and banknotes it produces for its own currency need to be a ''state secret.'' That begs the question ''Why?'' I think Riksbank has either very few banknotes in its vaults or a hole lot -- in both cases they don't want the public to know. Don't rattle the cage... I can't recall where I found the environmental report on the internet as a PDF. Unfortunately, it is in swedish only. I don't speak swedish. A trading buddy who does informed me of the important stuff. The numbers speak for itself. I can email you the PDF if you want. I think it's likley that the swedish bureaucrats made a mistake and the report with the production numbers got out ''by accident.'' Secondly, my guess is that the consulting firm that did the research looked at the environmental impact for the next five to ten years, perhaps even longer. So the number of coins is probably ''up to xx million minted'' as a projection by Riksbank for their needs for the next five to ten years. Considering production cost I think it's also entirely possible however that all the coins have already been minted and are sitting in bank vaults. Issued by demand which is obviously not that high in Sweden. Depending on denomination 34--44% of the new coin production are already in circulation. I think that's not too bad for Sweden. I think it won't go higher than 70%. If it does, I would be surprised. The Bundesbank -- responsible for cash in Germany -- overestimated the need for 50 Eurocent and 1 Euro coins here in Germany. They ordered millions of them between 2003--2005 (after the initial release in 2002). The coins of these orders were minted between 2003--2008. A lot of these coins are still in the vaults of the Bundesbank waiting to be released. Hence, there haven't been new orders for German 50 Eurocent and 1 Euro coins for 12 years! By the way, the year on German Euro coins indicates the year the coins were ordered and NOT when they were actually minted -- except for the coins dated ''2002'' of course. They were minted between 1999--2002. But in contrast to France or the Netherland, all German coins of the initial release are ''2002'' only. Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 10/05/2017 04:54 am Quote: ''Why?'' I think Riksbank has either very few banknotes in its vaults or a whole lot -- in both cases they don't want the public to know. Don't rattle the cage... They can be criticized either way. If it is too few, then it is difficult to stick with their argument that the reduction in cash is purely due to market forces and not being dictated at the government level. If it is a whole lot, then small vocal groups will want to see more banknotes circulated. Especially if there is a lot more of the token 3.482 million 1000kr banknotes circulating in a population of ten million. As I said earlier, it hardly seems worth the trouble to have the denomination. If Britain eliminated the 50 pound banknote, then I wonder if Sweden will follow, and eliminate the 500 and 1000 SEK banknotes. 50 GBP = 534.6 SEK Edited by PacoMartin 10/05/2017 04:56 am Report this Post to the Staff
PacoMartin Valued Member United States 411 Posts	Posted 01/21/2018 12:04 am I think somewhat of a surprise is that the number of 500kr banknotes increased by 20% in the 6 months after the old notes were declared invalid on 30 June 2017. It's almost as if the banknote refused to be completely buried. But circulation ended the year for Sweden at about 20 banknotes per capita with 25% being of the 20kr denomination. Circulation of the 1000kr is only token quantities, and value of circulating banknotes are 4600kr or roughly 460 Euros per capita. Although the decision to issue an e-krona is technically still undecided, it seems unlikely that the Riksbank will go through this huge process and then decide not to issue an electronic currency. If for no other reason than the central bank will do it out of self preservation. Report this Post to the Staff
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