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Hub Doubling On Lincoln Cent Obverses. (Sorry Long Thread)

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 Posted 04/01/2016  2:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Lincoln Cent Obverse Doubled dies

The Lincoln cent doubled dies has been pretty much the same, but slight different on the single squeeze dies. The multi-hubbed dies was a three or more step process that involved a softening of the dies, hubbing and then rest a day or two. Then repeat the process again to get a nice die. Then the die was set to the correct shape (height and diameter) then the die was harden (tempered) for use.
The single squeeze dies we usually hubbed only once. The profile on these die is not as deep as the multi-squeezed dies. So they process was sped up with the single squeeze process, saving time and money but having a poorer quality die. Sometimes the hub would be tilted a bit and would snap into place during the hubbing process. This movement creates a doubled die. Different than the older style doubled dies. When the single squeeze process was first started to be used, collectors figured there would be no more doubled dies. Boy were we wrong.
So looking at the obverse doubled dies what can we find? What areas can we find hub doubling on more often?
Starting with date, you can see these devices all enlarged or just certain ones enlarged.


Class 4+5+8


Class 9 doubling on date:






Class 1 doubling on the date:







Class 2 doubling on the date:





Class 5 doubling on date:


Class 6 doubling on the date:



Note the last 44s how the hubbing alters these devices along also with the enlarged 9.


LIBERTY can be affected differently by hub doubling:













1972P-1DO-001





Doubling on the tops of the devices.




Note the distortion of the devices from the hub doubling.

Motto devices can be altered enlarging IN GOD WE TRUST

1968



IN:
1941P-1DO-002

1941P-1DO-002





GOD:

Note the difference in direction between these 2 die numbers?



WE:
1934P-1DO-003

1941P-1DO-002




Although it looks minor, it is stronger on other parts of the die.



TRUST:
1917P-1DO-001

1941P-1DO-002




Note the differences on the 'S' on trust on these images. (one of the things I look for to ID these two dies:


Hub doubling on the eyelid is caused from an incorrect alignment during the hubbing. This will leave an eyelid in the field that can be above or below the normal eyelid. This will always be at the same angle as the eyelid on the coin. Sometimes die wear will mimic this, but keep in mind the eyelid will be raised in that field area of the eye.







Doubled ears are also found on this series:








Master die doubling and design enhancements on obverse:


Found on coins from both mints on the 1932 cents.




https://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49...ooks_01.jpg" border="0" style='cursor:default' onClick='doimage(this,event)'>






These should all be considered as normal coins as all the coins struck or part of the coins will have this as part of there design and will be common for that year.

I hope this information helps you to start to not remember the years the hub doubling is found on, but search for the various forms on the coins you are searching now. It may help you to find a new variety that has not been discovered yet.

Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/01/2016  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnDeVito to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, thanks for the time you took to teach us. You should be known as Professor Coop
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 Posted 04/01/2016  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop
You could never post one of your educational masterpieces on here that is too long. Thanks again for posting another very educational thread.
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 Posted 04/01/2016  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I figured out a better way to do a thread with so much information. If you make them here you will have a problem with loosing the information before you done. So I use the Word program, Type in all the information. Add the images and the tags to make it work. Finish all editing, copy and paste the whole lone thread in one post. I check for errors and didn't see any, and posted it. I spent about 2 hours making the thread and took seconds to post it. Works great for the long information threads. Now I have a few more. One for Wheat reverses, Memorial reverse and Shield reverses. But that will be another day. As far a time to complete, you would have to add probably 100 hours for editing the images. But that is what I do everyday. Add more. I'm 76 short for 5,000 images on my image host.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/01/2016  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I (and 100's of others I'm sure) certainly appreciate your efforts.
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 Posted 04/01/2016  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Nickel and the this one and the other ones I make should be a sticky. That way they would be an easy find.

The purpose of the thread was to show where to look for hub doubling and not consider a date for an issue to search a coin. I check every coin for a doubled die, RPMs, (pre 1990s coins) trails, and so forth. I keep my options in my search on every coin, not just a certain year. That is how I found my 2002-d DDR. Considering the finds on the 2004 cents, I decided to look at all of the EPU to see if any other year was affected, and I found one. (so far I know of 4 examples from this die, but there has to be a lot more out there)
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
So keeping an open mind will help us to see what is there. When there is nothing there, throw it back!
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/01/2016  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "sticky" idea sounds good. I have a hard time retaining all the information I read (could be an age thing).
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 Posted 04/01/2016  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Once again - we thank you for your hard efforts and educating us.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Prosp long and liver.
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 Posted 04/01/2016  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This should be a sticky note thread or whatever it is they call it,thanks coop!
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 Posted 04/01/2016  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete41 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome and enlightening as usual COOP.

I have been creating Excel worksheets with Lincoln Cents by decade; 1909-1919. 1920-1929 ..........2010-2019. Your Images find a home there in order by year. As 11997755 said, those of us without photo memory need access to the info that we might otherwise not remember. I eagerly await the future efforts you mentioned. Perhaps we too in the CCF will one day have a Dr.'s degree in coins as you have been labeled by JohnDeVito(Professor COOP). Well..... maybe Masters Degree.....well maybe undergrad degree... well for sure we will know more than we could possibly learn on our own.
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 Posted 04/01/2016  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop for all your work.

To the Mods, is there a way or place that we could put Coops 'Info Threads' so they can be found easy?
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 Posted 04/02/2016  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tommyjet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again Coop for an amazing post. The time and effort you put into a post to help us understand only makes us better at the hobby of collecting. again thanks to you and all the members that devote all the time it takes for this site and the comments truly great people.
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 Posted 04/02/2016  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorman3434 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop that is very nice and detailed to the point...Lot of new people going here will really like what you have done on this thread...You are a very big part of the Lincoln cent error world for all of us to view and learn from...Your pictures are awesome also....Keep up the great work in doing what you do best...

Patrick
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 Posted 07/23/2016  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coopthread=

Added this to make searching easier.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
07/23/2016 2:06 pm
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 Posted 01/13/2017  08:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CS-L#1-IA search
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/13/2017  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So glad you brought these back up, I had these posts saved on my other computer which crashed a few months back and I went looking for this post last week because I have a very fat 1964 LMC and couldn't remember when you first created them.

Thanks coop
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