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Are Coins With Heavy Die Scratches Worth Keeping?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 2,996Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United States
3514 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  09:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found a couple coins coin roll hunting that have extremely heavy die scratching. Please let me know if these are worth keeping. If you want to see pictures please let me know.
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Canada
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 Posted 05/22/2016  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes we need to see pics to say if it's in the die or PMD
Pillar of the Community
United States
3514 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin 1:















Pillar of the Community
United States
3514 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin 2:





Pillar of the Community
United States
3514 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coin 3:





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Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely die polish marks/lines.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2050 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find several myself and wonder why the mint let's them go out this way. Probably not worth anything but I am not experienced enough to answer the op's question.
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 Posted 05/22/2016  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the help. Should I save them or throw them into the back to the bank bin?
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United States
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 Posted 05/22/2016  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said I am not the one to answer that. Someone with more knowledge will answer your question.
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44449 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2016  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most dies have these. Even the EDS examples you can see them, but they are light compared to your coin. They polish the die to remove die clashes or other events to cover different things that happened to a die. They are removing sometimes deeper clashes that make the devices get thinner because the field is removed so much.

Note the 1 on these coins:



Why do these devices get smaller. The devices are tapered. The tops of the devices are narrow compared with the bottoms of the devices. This allows the coins to fall and not stick to the die. When the fields are over polished in an isolated area, the wider part of the device is polished away. The deeper part of the die is not affected, so the devices get smaller in size. Sometimes an area is affected and the devices are afected differently:



Note the shallow parts of the bust can be affected.





On proof coins they often polish out these lines and it leaves the surface smooth looking, but you can see the devices are reduced because the device is smaller.
Sometimes areas are affected on outside part of the die:


Note outside edge of the die was affected.

So while this is interesting with die scratches, they do not add value to a coin. Often die scratches are used on identification of a variety to help determine die states. Sometimes they help confirm because they are like finger prints to a die. But they are just an interest factor most of the time.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Valued Member
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2020  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a jar where I keep the most egregious examples of these kinds of cents when I find them CRH. The jar is labeled "They clearly didn't give a s*%#."

I keep them just because I find them amusing and it makes me wonder if they had any quality control at all going on at the time. I have many that have far worse die polishing marks, often times going in almost perpendicular fashion, as if a 3 year old were scratching something out.

Most of the ones I find come from the mid 1980's to the early 1990's and seem to coincide with the introduction of the zinc cent (which again makes me wonder about whether they had any concern for quality control).

I don't think they add any value and frankly thought I was the only one who even noticed them.
Edited by HGK3
02/19/2020 3:47 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
643 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2020  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
those scratches reveal it's an early die state, relative to the scratches, if not the entire die
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United States
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 Posted 02/19/2020  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On your coin, if you look at the size of the devices, you can tell it was over polished and the die scratches are the indication that this has taken place. While on a fresh die, there maybe minor polishing lines on the fresh die, but the devices will show full size devices on the EDS die states:
Cent:



Even looking closer you can see the preparation die scratches are mild compared with heavy die polishing lines.











Nickel:






Lower strike numbers will allow the devices to be fresher on the coins:


Dimes:







Quarters:

These SMS coins have a less shiny finish on the coin:


Half Dollar:




Note the fields how smooth they look even close up.


I could include other EDS examples, but used the SMS because there were probably less than 100 coins struck with these dies and they were fresh dies. (We have seen that some were continued to be used that were not with the SMS strike because the markers were matched.

CoopHome : EDS light polishing lines
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
2050 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2020  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think the die scratches affect the value if you have a known variety. I have several (about 800) 62 DDO's and the heavy die scratches are one of the "markers/attributes". There just part of the die but.....I could be wrong
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16527 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2020  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Only worthy keeping as educational examples. They have no premium value.

And heavy die scratches are NOT indicative of an early die state. A fresh new die is lapped to remove any oxidation from the hardening process, but that polishing is done with a very fine grit and polish lines should either not be visible at all or very light fine lines. The lines on the OP coins are the result of heavy handed work with coarser abrasives. Not really polishing at all even though we call them "polishing marks" They are done more to dress the die and remove damage marks. (often done with an emory stick.) The mint used to call this, and may still, "stoning the die"
Gary Schmidt
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