Possible Counterfeit? $3 Gold 1855

quote:

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I told the guy if he did not refund my money I would report him to the ebay fraud department. Long story short he refunded my money.

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You're lucky, I'd say he was under no obligation to refund your money. You take the coin out of the holder, it's yours. You go past the return privilege date, it's yours. Unless you get permission from the seller for a longer return period in order to have the coin graded and for the TPG to remove the coin from the holder.

And if you don't get such permission that doesn't always mean there is a problem. Grading can take two or three months and it isn't too surprising that a seller would not want to have the transaction drag on that long.

Ok, so the latest news is that I got a message from paypal that they are requesting more official documentation. Fair enough. But now I'm going to run into the issue of, "how do I prove that the coin I have looked at is the same one that was for purchased from abon?" I talked with a dealer yesterday, and he said he is comfortable looking at the coin and writing a statement if it is counterfeit; but I'm not sure he would want to write a statement confirming that the coin is the same one in the listing. I am REALLY wanting to hear all suggestions and advice for how I should proceed! It would be much appreciated! I have until May 10th to submit some documentation to paypal, before they cancel the case. Here is a cut and paste from paypal:

"Dear John Brawner,

We are currently in the process of investigating your claim:

Case Number: PP-448-990-429
Transaction Date: Mar 9, 2008
Transaction Amount: -$629.49 USD
Seller's Email: (had to remove sellers email address even though he isn't the straightest arrow in the shed)
Seller's Name: Abon Enterprises

In order to continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must
request documentation to support your claim that the item is damaged or
significantly not as described. Please obtain a document (such as an
estimate or invoice) from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer, repair
shop, appraiser, or another individual or organization that is qualified in
the area of the item in question (other than yourself). This document
should detail the extent of the damage or clearly explain how the item
received significantly differs from the item advertised. Please do not
proceed with any repairs or alterations to the item, as doing so will limit
PayPals ability to successfully resolve your claim, and may result in the
cancellation of your dispute. If possible, the document should include a
serial number and description of the item, and the dollar amount required
to complete the repairs necessary to correct the damage. This document must
be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
individual, business, or organization so that PayPal may contact them if
necessary.

The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this
is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United
States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please
include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address
registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim
(PP-448-990-429) so we may attach the document to your claim as quickly as
possible.

We must receive your fax by May 10, 2008 in order to proceed with the
investigation of your claim. If we do not receive your fax by May 10, 2008,
your claim will be cancelled. We are unable to grant extensions to this
time period. PayPal is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees that
may be incurred in obtaining the requested documents. Any documents you
provide may also be supplied to the seller in your dispute.

Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience
this request may cause.

Sincerely,
Presten
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an ebay Company"

Thanks so much guys for your support and advice!
John

I would also take it to other coin dealer and see if you can get their opinion on it too. With your original dealer, you can print out those pictures and show them to him to compare them(you can also maybe e-mail them to him or bring a laptop to the shop with the images on there?). See if maybe you can find a person who calls themselves an expert in the area of gold and e-mail them the auction photos and your photos and have them give their opinion(s) on it.

What exactly did you submit to paypal. From what you posted here, it looks pretty obvious that it's the same coin and that it's a fake.

Well congrats dude!

I was reading this thread like one would read a novel. I was like "ooo that seller. I hope he gets his refund. Whats going to happen next?"

Happy for yah.

Now when he gets it back in a different bezel, lets see if he tries to give a reduced refund because it is not the same as when it was sent out. (And of course if you decline the reduced refund you have the problem that you are still out the money, and you no longer have the coin either. All of your leverage is gone.

hmm....well I did send paypal a letterhead with the "Professional Numismatic Services" acknowlegement that the coin is counterfeit....as well as the pics from the listing with the areas of concern mentioned in the letter circled, plus some quotes from the forums regarding the coin in the listing being "counterfeit". I think I have more than enough evidence in the fax itself. I mean, in reality, even if the coin IS in its original condition when it is sent back; can't the seller say whatever he wants? The shipment will be tracked, but he could even say I sent him an empty envelope regardless of what I send him. (sigh).

I think it means that the purchase qualifies for their protection policy because the seller doesn't seem willing to issue a refund. Basically you will get your money back either way. Send it back insured and with tracking. I wouldn't use the USPS because their tracking isn't very good since many postal employees don't scan the packages.