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1969 S Lincoln Cent - Machine Doubling Or Doubled Die?

 
 
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United States
14 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  2:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spare Change Keeper to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi all,

I just found this CRHing and can't tell if this a true doubled die or if it is Machine Doubling. What do you guys think?



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 Posted 01/19/2017  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbie234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me say first that I really suck at the DDO/DDR coins,But it looks like it to me. But that may not be saying much!
Valued Member
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 Posted 01/19/2017  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MD, See the flat shelf-like doubling on the date.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nothing more to add!
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 Posted 01/19/2017  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Check CoinCollector2000's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MD
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 Posted 01/19/2017  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the forum!

Another thing to look at on this coin is the way the mint mark "S" is doubled the same as the other devices. That is another clue that this if Mechanical Doubling.
In 1969, the mint mark was added to the die by hand, after the die had already been engraved with the other details. So a doubled die would show all of the details doubled except the mint mark, which was added to the die later.
It is possible, and has happened, to have a doubled die that also shows MD.
This webpage goes over some of this in more details: http://www.lincolncentsonline.com/1...20Cents.html

Keep searching!
New Member
United States
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 Posted 01/19/2017  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spare Change Keeper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys! Now I get it! I think it still looks cool and I'll keep it. Thanks for the link cwb; that's a cool site.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another thing that's common this year is the floating roof. Check the reverse, makes for something else to look for, but like I said if present is petty common issue from die polishing. Thanks, Doug.
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Two sides to every coin. The edge makes three.
Side Note: Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.
Edited by Halo1st
01/19/2017 5:50 pm
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 Posted 01/19/2017  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The devices on the real deal on the 1969S-1DO-001:


On your coin all the devices are reduced in size by the machine damage after the strike. On the real DDO for this year/mint all the devices are widened. Take another look with this information under your belt. Now you will see the difference. There are only a few examples of this die known, but 100's millions MD examples for this year. The MD examples were common on the 1968-1972 years on the cents. Die movement after the strike is to blame.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
01/19/2017 10:47 pm
Valued Member
United States
173 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2017  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ross Son to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the brand spanking new hunters. This helped me a lot.
Sometimes it is hard for us newbies to differentiate a MD versus Doubled Dies, because some MD can be very confusing.

A rule of thumb I use is if the height are the same, then potentially doubled die, If not, then MD. Sometimes if I am unsure because the coin is either dirty, damaged, or poor lighting, I just check the pictures of the actual doubled dies for that coin's year and mintmark in the website (See my signature for links for those site). Because the doubling is engraved on the actual punching dies, the areas that has doubling has to match 100% to all areas showing doubling on the true doubled dies pictures.


Image: 20161221074337_IMG_1705.PNG
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 Posted 01/20/2017  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually the dies are hubbed (not engraved) The hub looks just like a die except it is not a mirror of coin, but looks just like the coin:


The hub has the devices raised, the bust/building raised and there are lugs to line up the dies for the correct alignment. (which on the multi hubbed dies before the single squeeze dies was up to 3 or move times to get the devices stronger) The die on the right has the devices incuse, bust/building is incuse. Note how wide the top of the die is? The indented lugs are present.
So why don't coin show these lug lines? The dies are tapered into the correct shape and dimensions.


Then stored away for use on the machines:

There are other steps as well, but I'm not going to complicate it more right now.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
01/20/2017 3:27 pm
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 Posted 01/20/2017  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent Coop!
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