Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Toning On This Coin...do You Like It?

 
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23520 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As with any higher value coin, I have to wonder why the consigner did not have it slabbed.


This is one a knowledgeable dealer wouldn't bother slabbing. The toning is advanced enough to risk an "Environmental Damage" label, at which point prospective buyers stop looking at the coin and start looking at the label. Yes, it'll limit his audience.

To the experts, who will make rational decisions based on the coin and not the "designation." This is a pricey coin in AU or better, and (to my mind) indisputably original. That counts for something. The images are as unflattering as they could be; I could probably make it look quite a bit better with careful light placement.

The coin wouldn't be any different, just how you look at it. Just like you could do at home without a camera involved, by changing light source and angle.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1190 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is one a knowledgeable dealer wouldn't bother slabbing. The toning is advanced enough to risk an "Environmental Damage" label, at which point prospective buyers stop looking at the coin and start looking at the label. Yes, it'll limit his audience.

To the experts, who will make rational decisions based on the coin and not the "designation." This is a pricey coin in AU or better,

I would like to think that the knowledgeable dealers would be honest enough to expose to any potential buyer that the coin in question is possibly environmentally damaged, even on consignment. There is a learning curve in this hobby, and that could be a very expensive lesson for some. The "experts" might not need another opinion, but why hide the truth from the lesser informed? Laura over at Legend I would deem a highly knowledgeable dealer, yet everything on her site is in PCGS and cac stickered.
I can only judge this coin from the images provided, and I don't like what I think I see. Having it in a slab would either confirm my suspicion or, if it was straight graded, might have me give the coin a second look.
Again, JMHO

Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23520 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would like to think that the knowledgeable dealers would be honest enough to expose to any potential buyer that the coin in question is possibly environmentally damaged, even on consignment


The only difference between your avatar coin and Environmental Damage is how long the toning process was allowed to proceed. I would like to think that somebody could look at this coin and realize it's in late-stage toning without being told so by a TPG. "Environmental Damage" is their term for it, not mine. I call it "late stage toning," which is non-judgmental.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1190 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The only difference between your avatar coin and Environmental Damage is how long the toning process was allowed to proceed. I would like to think that somebody could look at this coin and realize it's in late-stage toning without being told so by a TPG. "Environmental Damage" is their term for it, not mine. I call it "late stage toning," which is non-judgmental.


Exactly......BUT.... once the toning process has been allowed to proceed past the point of actually providing a protective layer which is beneficial to the coins surface, it actually has a detrimental effect and can be considered corrosion. Let me give you the PCGS definition......

Quote:
PCGS defintition.
corrosion
Damage that results when reactive chemicals act upon metal. When toning ceases to be a "protective" coating and instead begins to damage a coin, corrosion is the cause. Usually confined to copper, nickel and silver regular issues, although patterns in aluminum, white metal, tin, etc., also are subject to this harmful process.

If the coin in question is in, as you put it, late stage toning, it is no longer stable and will continue to degrade over time. Should not prospective customers be made aware? Not all are as knowledgeable as others, and what an expensive lesson. Heck, even many experts rely on the TPG opinions.....
As far as my avatar coin, it has remained stable and completely unchanged since at least 1994 when Phil Flanagan purchased it. I have no doubt it will remain that way for a very long time.
Again, JMHO
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12450 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The "experts" might not need another opinion, but why hide the truth from the lesser informed?


The seller believes it's original and came from being stored in a leather pouch. As far as why it isn't slabbed you would have to ask the consignor. They gave a pretty big raw coin consignments and looks like they didn't want any of them slabbed. If the consignor did want them all sold raw that seller would respect the consignors wishes.

There are other raw coins in the consignment where things that would get a details grade are disclosed like saying it was cleaned ect.
Edited by basebal21
11/27/2017 11:12 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1190 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are other raw coins in the consignment where things that would get a details grade are disclosed like saying it was cleaned ect.

Then I certainly give my respect to the seller. It is very possible that the coin in question has not reached the point of no return. As I've said before, I can only judge this coin from the images provided, and they are not great. I wish you had chimed in earlier, it certainly moves the pendulum a little.
I guess I am a little cynical when it comes to expensive raw coins, and for good reason. Why would anyone leave so much money on the table when a reasonably inexpensive trip to the tpgs add so much value? It does happen though, just not very often.


Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone care to disclose what outfit is selling this lot? Not interested in this coin but would take a peek at others.
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12450 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2017  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gerry Fortin is the one selling it.


Quote:
. Then I certainly give my respect to the seller. It is very possible that the coin in question has not reached the point of no return. As I've said before, I can only judge this coin from the images provided, and they are not great. I wish you had chimed in earlier, it certainly moves the pendulum a little.
I guess I am a little cynical when it comes to expensive raw coins, and for good reason. Why would anyone leave so much money on the table when a reasonably inexpensive trip to the tpgs add so much value? It does happen though, just not very often.


I have no idea why the consignor wanted them sold raw but it looks like they did. Quick glance and it looks like the ones slabbed in that collection were only old ANACS holders. I'm cynical about expensive raw coins too, but I do know he wouldn't force grading on a consignor if they didn't want it and I'm guessing they might just be an anti TPG type.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1190 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2017  01:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm cynical about expensive raw coins too, but I do know he wouldn't force grading on a consignor if they didn't want it and I'm guessing they might just be an anti TPG type.



I got a better look at the coin on the website. While the toning does nothing for me personally, it does not appear to have reached the point of no return, nor do I see any evidence of corrosion. Again, this is only from what I can see in the images which while better than in the original post, still leave a lot to be desired.
Mr Fortin, in my humble opinion, had nothing to disclose.
FWIW, I still would prefer to have seen it in a TPG slab.
Edited by hadleydog
11/28/2017 01:17 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12450 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2017  04:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I got a better look at the coin on the website. While the toning does nothing for me personally, it does not appear to have reached the point of no return, nor do I see any evidence of corrosion. Again, this is only from what I can see in the images which while better than in the original post, still leave a lot to be desired.
Mr Fortin, in my humble opinion, had nothing to disclose.
FWIW, I still would prefer to have seen it in a TPG slab.


I completely agree. I don't think he was hiding anything or that it's something that couldn't be reversed if someone wanted too and that the natural sunlight pictures might be making that look worse than it is. I'd prefer to see it slabbed too since I'd just end up sending it in anyway if I was the buyer, the consignor is certainly making the sale harder with some of them keeping them raw. This coin is almost the poster child for I wish it had a TrueView to get another look at it with different lighting.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1190 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2017  07:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This coin is almost the poster child for I wish it had a TrueView to get another look at it with different lighting.



Pillar of the Community
United States
4397 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2017  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
but it would be a perfect Christmas gift for me.
Proud member of the Black Sheep Squadron!

Moderator
Learn More...
United States
77064 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
1249 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2017  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone for voting on this poll. It looks like people are pretty much 50/50 on whether they like the toning on this coin. Haha...just joking. It appears it is overwhelming "no" but I'm sure it looks better in hand. I wasn't interested in the coin personally but just thought the toning was interesting and wanted to put up a poll to see what people's thoughts were about toned coins like this. Now I know!
Valued Member
United States
355 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2017  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EarlyTurban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would have to see it in hand. From the image provided, I'd have to say no sir... I don't care for it.

ET
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.31 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05