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2 Doubled Working Hubs for 2017-P cents?

 
 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 01/12/2018  9:00 pm Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Mentioned in a reply a bit back that I believed there was at least one doubled working hub (or possibly a doubled master die due to how common it is, I'm going to refer to it as a doubled working hub for now) for 2017-P cents, so I'm going to show why I think this. I'll give 5 examples of each of the two hubs.

Doubled Working Hub #1
Extra thickness on LIBERTY. The left side of the Y is thicker than the other. Minor notching on the lower left of the TY. Minor notching on the top left of the T.

The majority of 2017-P cents are this doubled working hub. My estimate is around 75%.

WDDO-004, 006, 007, 008, 010, 013, 014, and 015 are this doubled hub.

Die #1:



Die #2:



Die #3:



Die #4:



Die #5:



Doubled Working Hub #2
Doubling is nearly identical to the first working hub but the letters are noticeably thinner than the first. The horizontal bar of the T and the right side of the Y are extremely thin.

Not as common as the first working hub, my estimate is 10%-20% of 2017-P cents are this doubled hub.

WDDO-011, 012, and 016 are this doubled hub.

Die #1:



Die #2:



Die #3:



Die #4:



Die #5:



True doubled dies:
WDDO-001, 002, 005, 009, and 017 do not match these doubled working hubs and have slightly more extra thickness on the letters.

WDDO-001:


WDDO-002:


What do you guys think?
Edited by Tanman2001
01/12/2018 9:03 pm
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13019 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2018  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was also thinking the same thing, do to the large amount of LSC I see with this same doubling. I don't even keep these, do to how common is it. I only keep the strong ones. Have you told John Wexler about this? It is etheir a Doubled Working Hub or a Doubled Master Die.
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
Edited by Errers and Varietys
01/12/2018 9:27 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1393 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2018  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Have you told John Wexler about this?


I will try to send Wexler an email about this tonight.
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 Posted 01/12/2018  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will try to send Wexler an email about this tonight.


Awesome! Please update this post and quote or screenshot the email reply of what John Wexler thinks. It is getting time to update his site again anyway, so it would be good.
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
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 Posted 01/12/2018  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Check coinlover1899's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinlover1899 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All I can say is awesome pics!
My name is Devin, and I have been collecting now for around 3 1/2 years. I love all US coinage. I set up at coin shows and sell on eBay with my dad
Visit my website:
https://www.InGodWeTrustCoinsAndCurrency.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2018  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Check still lookin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add still lookin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tonight is the first time that I have looked at 2017 cents. I am in agreement that there are doubled master hubs. Way too many cents with the same features.
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United States
1393 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2018  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From Wexler:


Quote:
Hi Tanner,



I've been thinking along those lines myself but have been way too busy to study them as you have. I agree with your findings. Please send me a list of the ones you believe are from Working Hub #1 and a list of those that you believe are from Working Hub #2. You will get credit on that web page for making the analysis.



Thank you for sharing your analysis with me. It is greatly appreciated.
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 Posted 01/14/2018  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome Tanman! Thank you very much for cracking down on these. Now I know that they're not true Doubled Dies. That's what I call a
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
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 Posted 01/14/2018  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tannman, I have also noticed many what seems a VLDS that show for lack of better description a separation of the details, like a pulling apart which becomes blatant under too much magnification. I've always considered it nothing more than late stage attrition, which may in itself be wrong. I've wondered why so many folks were noticing all these. Good work up.
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 Posted 01/15/2018  06:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 11997755 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tanman. I wondered why I was finding so many DDO's on the 2017P's. After about 10 of them, I realized they were way too common to hang on too.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1393 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2018  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's official! Wexler updated the site with the doubled working hubs. A lot of empty spaces in the files now, Let's fill them up with actual doubled dies!

http://doubleddie.com/2318537.html
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 Posted 01/31/2018  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think your estimate of 75% is a too high. If it was a master die issue, then it might be 50% as only two are made.

The working hubs would not make that number that high. IMOHO
But nice find. It would be nice to see the information put onto an image and show the affected areas. So many images on this thread cloud the issue. One image for the WWHO-001 and WWHO-002. That would be helpful. I can see the differences between the two on the 'Y's in LIBERTY. But other points are lost in the words.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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