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A great New Blacksmith find - Ships, Colonies and Commerce token, BL-24B

 
 
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United States
158 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2018  6:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently went to a small coin show in Oregon, and as the show was closing in one hour, hurriedly perused dealer's coins. I found a ships, colonies and commerce token at $15.00, and thought something was "off", but couldn't remember what. Brought it home and popped it out of the 2X2 and knew it was too thin, and too light - 3.2 grams. Checked it in Canadian token catalog and found it matched BL-24B. I have included decent pictures. Match mine against the catalog picture. I could use your opinion of grade. I picked up the BL-24A over 20 years ago, but never thought I'd ever see one of the BL-24B's. Thanks for any help.







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United States
795 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2018  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yontan

Great catch. Tough token.

I only have 2 of these (ICCS poor and ICCS F-12).

doug
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United States
7357 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2018  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a great find. Since there are so many varieties of "regular" Ships Colonies & Commerce tokens your knowledge and study has paid off.
I have a nice collection of Canadian Colonial Tokens but no luck yet on finding anything like that!
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2018  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doug, I know from another thread that you're writing a book about colonial tokens. From your experience what do you think my token would grade? I've got to think that all blacksmith tokens are necessarily crude, but in my own estimation I think it would be a VF. Any guess would be a help. Thanks, Bill.
Valued Member
United States
158 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2018  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So sorry Doug. I see I confused Colonial Tokens with Colonial John. My bad. Bill
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Canada
7973 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2018  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A great catch for $15!!
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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United States
1438 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2018  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Other than the BL-15's I stopped seriously buying Blacksmiths around 10-15 years ago ... having said that a lot of new entries exist in Charlton. Some I agree with others maybe are British CCC imports. These are unquestionably of a Blacksmith Canadian origin obviously. I own several pieces of the more common types. I would grade this minimally Fine but possibly VF. Even from two photos (the Charlton plate and your discovery) ... one can see easily these are irregularly struck so these would grade based on the striking strength along the rim peripheries IMO and not the central areas. So this could even be a VF! Its a huge find. Expect your grading service to call it Fine and not VF IMO. Still huge. Grading companies are not very good in interpreting irregularly struck coins or coins not struck in collars same as here in the States with NGC, PCGS and ANACS.
You must remember Blacksmiths in many ways was a dumping ground for Canadians for long time that anything uni-face and/or crude was an automatic Blacksmith and the cross-analysis of seeing if these could be English imported counterfeits never entered into the equation but exceptions have occurred as in the deletion of Blacksmith Wood 42. Hope you enjoyed my chapter on Blacksmiths in Forgotten Coins and again a great find! I only present the evidence and my experience if any more Blacksmiths are added or delisted as English CCCs its up to my neighbors across the border - these are their historical treasures - I am just a concerned neighbor across the border. LOL.

John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States
Edited by colonialjohn
02/13/2018 3:37 pm
Valued Member
United States
158 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2018  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your help ! And John, thank you for corroborating my thoughts on grading Blacksmith tokens. I too would grade it VF, based on how Blacksmith tokens were made, and struck. Bill.
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Canada
176 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2018  11:19 am  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Terrific story and awesome find. Thanks for sharing.
Numismatic cataloger, writer, and researcher.
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Canada
1239 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2018  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't collect token coins but I agree a great story and find knowledge is the key well done congrats
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United States
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 Posted 02/14/2018  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I am not sure of the VF considerations. Different grading companies do hold to different standards.

I was disappointed with ICCS grading my best ensample as a F-12; I believe a F-15 would have been more accurate.

In any event, my ICCS F-12 is comparable to the posted photos of your token. I believe your token to be at best, a F-15.

Perhaps NGC or PCGS would be more liberal.

Grading is subjective and buy the coin/token on what your evaluation is; do not solely rely on the certification grade.

doug

Valued Member
United States
158 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2018  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hear you Doug. I will check with different services on their standards for grading such tokens. And, when I purchase any coins, I check the grade carefully with my loupe, as, like you, I buy the grade I call it, not the certification. My only reason for "slabbing" this is because when I submitted many coins and tokens to Moore Auctions (twice), they insisted on submitting the best material for certification. I have been collecting for 65 years, and soon it will be time to divest myself of all my holdings. At this point I'm stalling, as I enjoy the search. Bill.
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United States
2000 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2018  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before I had even heard of blacksmith tokens back in the 80's, when I started collecting heavily Vicky large cents along with a great deal of stuff from seemingly every other country in the world, I got 10-15 of them in lots that I used to buy. I actually tossed them away and used them as golf-ball markers and then tossed them because of the apparent wear (that really wasn't wear0. I kick myself every time I think about it.
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