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Fraud And Who Should Be Held Liable?

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italianruby's Avatar
United States
33 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  3:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add italianruby to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everyone, I have a small collection that I keep adding to as funds allow I have just encountered a major problem with SGS graded coins I won an auction from an online auction (don't know if I can say who here) but anyway, I won three 1969 half dollars graded ms70 now I find out that SGS isn't even a grading company recognized by anyone in the know My question is should and could the auction company be held responsible for misleading the public if they are selling these as ms 70 coins? Any input would be appreciated!! Thanks in advance, Italianruby P>S> I am also a member of coin talk and am going to post there as well! I am so angry IT'S hard to even type
Pillar of the Community
Zohar444's Avatar
United States
1429 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zohar444 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought one myself, unreal. I do not believe they can be sued as they are presenting the coins based on their grading. At the end of the day its a reputation business which very few have.
New Member
garakguest's Avatar
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add garakguest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure if I understand. You knowingly bought SGS graded coins and after you received them found SGS to be inferior or did you buy SGS graded coins thinking they were something else and ended up with a bait-and-switch? I am not familiar with SGS but was the auction misadvertised in any way?
Edited by garakguest
06/11/2008 4:10 pm
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patrick's Avatar
United States
560 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add patrick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the thing to remember is that you should buy the coin, not the slab. It doesn't really matter what company is doing the grading - or whether or not they're reputable. The most important thing is that you make an informed decision about the coin you're purchasing. Does it meet the grading standards for MS70 (or whatever grade is being advertised)? Is the price fair, based on the grade YOU determine? That's the only way to tell if you're getting a fair deal or not.

SGS is a grading company but they don't have the same reputation as PCGS or ANACS. I would avoid any of their coins, especially the ones in the higher grades. However, I wouldn't miss out on purchasing a coin I considered a good deal simply because it was in an SGS holder.

I presonally wouldn't waste the time trying to sue them for fraud. You would have to prove - in court - that they knowingly lied to you. Because grading is somewhat subjective and because they might have simply made a mistake, it would be very difficult to make that stick. I would look into the return policy of whoever you bought these coins for. If they don't have one or if it's been too long, I would chalk it up to experience. We have all made mistakes like this. You're not alone
Valued Member
JohnAP's Avatar
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnAP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nope, your DEFINITELY not alone! Check into the return policy, live and learn. The sueing thing would not be a good idea, as discussed in a previous thread around here somewhere. If you got a good deal on the coins, and they look good for the money you paid, break em out and enjoy them!
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't waste your time. It would be a costly and agonizing experiance.Enjoy the coins.
If you mention the auction house I am sure some of the more experienced members of this board can give you valuable feedback.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
most of the time its buyer beware and the buyer is the one who always has to do their homework before they buy any coins, if they are able to grade then thats all well and good and you can find some good bargains in bottom feeder slabs like SGS but its definately not for someone that doesn't know how to grade and are going to go with the inflated number these people put on their plastic holders. If you have a return policy then return them but if not I am sorry to say there isn't a lot that can be done
Valued Member
Texas Trader's Avatar
United States
250 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Texas Trader to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no clue what you paid but if they are great coins you could consider breaking the slabs and getting them certified by PCGS or one of the other 'recognized' services. Again, depending on the quality of the coin this could help recoup part of you investment. Lawyers are expensive so you would need to include that in any risk/rewards calculations you might consider, win or lose.
New Member
italianruby's Avatar
United States
33 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add italianruby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok, I purchased three coins based on the fact that they were graded as MS70@20.00 each, the auction site is AAN, I have bought from them before without any problems, when I spoke to them they said that the coins were sold as uncirculated, but that is not what was being said on the auction the night I purchased them, they are reviewing the tapes as I am posting right now! I have no problem with buying coins I like from AAN, but if it is represented as a certain grade then they should stand behind it! Because you are paying for the grading to prevent buying a poor coin! IMOA If these were sold unslabbed and uncirculated I am sure the price would have been less! One more point, I purchased two at first but while I was paying for them, another one became available because someone couldn't pay for whatever reason,so I got the third one. The point I am getting at is the fact that all were graded MS70! I believe that it is the seller who is supposed to know what and who they are representing and if they say it is graded as xyz then they should stand behind what their selling Thanks for listening to my ranting! I'm soo angry with this SGS company that I'm making it my mission to let everyone know how bad they are in misrepresenting their graded coins
New Member
garakguest's Avatar
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add garakguest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you saying the coins are definitely not MS-70 and you were disappointed with the condition the coins arrived in? I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this as fraud just because of the name slapped onto the label. I haven't read anything in your comments so far that disputes the grade given, just the repudiability of the grading service.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if SGS gives the coin a 70 you can almost bet its a 68 or below, I have never seen a 70 coin in a 70 SGS slab, and I have seen many many SGS 70's
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TLS5933's Avatar
United States
1703 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TLS5933 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan,
Your giving SGS a lot of credit. Most of the coins I have seen SGS graded MS70 were closer to AU58 to BU.

Italianruby,maybe you could post a few pics of the coins in question.
Edited by TLS5933
06/11/2008 7:38 pm
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desertgem's Avatar
United States
860 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add desertgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Almost every grading company has a disclaimer in it. SGS has the below on their submission web site:

"Coin grading is not always consistent and, objective grading of coins is always attempted by SGS, but we can not guarantee that all risk associated with rare coin grading is eliminated. All coin grading will be done to Star Grading Service Standards."

So there is no guarantee, and one must adjust according to the reputation of the company. The auction company should provide all of the details of the object ( i.e. SGS MS-70) rather than just "MS-70". If not, maybe they would take them back when they find your objection. If they did mention the SGS, you have no chance to win a suit, as in an auction you are assumed to be bidding with full knowledge of what the value of the object is~ If it is correctly described. I suspect the auction company is reviewing tapes to see if "SGS" was mentioned or not by the auctioneer. Google SGS and read some of the articles on TPG. Best of luck in the meantime.

Jim
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have a link to the auction? ebay seller Aboncom and SGS are one and the same. This scam has been running on the Bay for a looong time.

Check their return policy. You likely bought $5 coins for $20.
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
sandpaper's Avatar
United States
335 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2008  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sandpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw this on TV and was gonna post for a chuckle, but no one seems to wanna play "Truth or Dare". It's a fun game, and go's like this... If you think he is telling truth; I dare you to buy.

Just live and learn, many have and will get burned. I am still waiting for the four Morgan dollars, that I bought for $100, to be worth it. I bought these in 2003.
New Member
italianruby's Avatar
United States
33 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2008  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add italianruby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sorry for your loss sandpaper:( good game though lol
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