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Something seems off about these high grade key date coins

 
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Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2018  10:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NorthWestInvest to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Something doesn't sit right with me on these coins. Any chance these are a counterfeit from the famous Chinese website? If they are genuine I am curious on grading opinions but right now I'm focused on the legitimacy.







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Canada
538 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnnysprawl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dates look off; yes, I would guess Chinese counterfeits.
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Canada
8171 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  12:43 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They look legit to me. Sadly, someone has taken EF to AU key date coins and whizzed them...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2094 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  05:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are they from eBay .. if so look at the seller's history. They're bright and shiny, but show wear ... I agree with SPP
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2118 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  07:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% whizzed.
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Canada
5536 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins with that much wear should not be that red and shiny.
Looked at them on my tablet where I could increase
the size and you can see what appears to be whizz marks.




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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
14563 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These look to me to be die struck fakes. They probably ping the same as genuine and weigh exactly the same as genuine.
The luster seems to be the same as freshly minted coins, which they are.

The coins themselves show full mint luster, but the detail is just too fuzzy for the amount of undisturbed luster that these coins show.
Very poor detail in the King's beard, mustache, head band of the crown and bust. Leaves on reverse a bit better, but still not up to scratch.

Not whizzed. Whizzing would not show up as well,
close in to the details, and in the low points of the design detail,
but would be more evident in the open fields.

My theory is that
the the dies that produced these were cut by the spark erosion process then worked up a little. The spark erosion die cutter is programmed from a previously prepared 3D digital image, read from a genuine coin, by a laser optic profiler.

Laser optic profiling is what dentists use to read the base profile under a new tooth crown.
The new prosthetic crown is machined from a blank, and uses the digital base profile to ensure a perfect fit of the new crown onto the base of the tooth.

These sorts of fakes are going to become increasingly common. We need to train our eyes to be able to identify them more easily.
Edited by sel_69l
07/11/2018 09:40 am
Valued Member
United States
190 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gotboostedvr6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
subd
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7260 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coins have been enhanced to dupe the innexperienced collector.
Quite successfully as the title of this thread mentions high grade coins,which they are not.
In the last photo the coin appears to have been lacquered.

"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NorthWestInvest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the feedback

In regards to DBM's comment, please don't assume all new members are inexperienced collectors, the same way that someone with thousands of posts doesn't make them an experienced collector.

The "high grade" and "key date" from the title were intended to be paired. I'm not saying these coins ARE high grade but they are high grade key date coins. The same way as you might classify a billionaire with only $1000 poor but not classify a homeless person with that same $1000 as being not poor.
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Canada
2103 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
date on the 25 looks WAY off
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Canada
1497 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wade I agree the date looks way off. Many letters look "jiggly" and have apparent doubling shadows. To me this looks more likely to be imprecise whizzing rather than poor laser scanning of a die. So I vote whizzing.
Edited by Smallcentguy
07/11/2018 9:22 pm
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Canada
284 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2018  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KHatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that they are whizzed. The 1925 photo looks jiggly, but I think that it`s just an out of focus photo, if you look at the edges of the coin or the background there is a lot of doubling/jiggly-ness there too. Compare with how sharp the edges and background of the obv photo is.
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Canada
2118 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2018  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conclusion: Jiggly pictures and whizzed.
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Canada
1145 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2018  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Check Pokermandude's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They look just like other confirmed Chinese fakes of key date Canadian small cents that have popped up on eBay over the past year or two.
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Canada
8171 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2018  04:22 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They look just like other confirmed Chinese fakes of key date Canadian small cents that have popped up on eBay over the past year or two.


No, they don't. They don't have any of the markers. These are legit coins, but altered (whizzed).

These are the Chinese fakes:








"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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