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Opinion Wanted: Raw 1916-D Mercury Dime

 
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Bedrock of the Community
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42673 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2018  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not just nice-looking, but a collection of slabbed coins gives a great deal of confidence about quality and valuation.

If you could save $30, would you take a flight not checked by TSA?
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United States
1249 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2018  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
People need to be informed by looking at both sides of the issue and decide for themselves which path they want. Newbies reading threads and blindly accepting "SHOULD" in a statement of that context end up knowing only one side of the facts.


It's more than just that. I think Newbies "SHOULD" by certified coins WITH a green bean sticker on it! It's not only to protect their investment but they can get a sense of originality and eye appeal.
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United States
6139 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2018  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Apples and oranges.

My life does not depend on whether or not my collection is slabbed.

A collection of slabbed coins will give some people a great deal of confidence, andits likely those people are not very aware of things like the following:

There are people getting taken all the time by these alleged 1982 No FG halves on eBay. They pay for what they think is the No FG variety just b/c a company said the initials were gone, despite their own eyes being able to tell them otherwise (if they even bother to look).

The experts certainly should know that in 1982 THE No FG die was not engraved with the initials at all. Examples where all three graders missed this fact so the company slabbed the coin as the No FG variety are not hard to find. Ghosted FGs are also frequently labeled as No FG for this and the other year known wgere the FG is not missing from a polishing - the 1972-D. All other Kennedy dates missing Fg are from polishing the dies, yet slabbed ones from the most trusted TOGs are not hard to find where the pics in the auctions show a ghosted FG.



Is it worth paying 30.00 to have a mislabeled half dollar? Not for me.

Add to this that the confidence is in the slabs and not the coin itself. If the coin is broken out of the slab, it cannot be guaranteed to have the same grade again! The confidence is actually in the labels and not the metal. And since the different sets of TPG experts won't even necessarily agree, I personally put higher value on the 30.00 being in my own pocket (to buy more coins!) than for that 30.00 to be paid for a debatable opinion (even among the trained graders!).

I also find another factor in confidence of the companies is how much money people have already invested in slabs before confronted with items such as the above.

- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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United States
12762 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2018  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That statement is far from true.
The TPG's don't release all the markers or tells they are aware of. The reason given is that the coin doctor's or counterfeiters would then have the opportunity to correct mistakes they may not have been aware of. This was confirmed by an original grader with the ANA, it's ats if you care to have a look.

Please try to remember, we are always one step behind the coin doctor's and high grade counterfeiters. I'm not talking about the garbage coming out of China. The really good counterfeits are struck and made out of the correct alloys, they measure up very well.


Exactly. The actual ones that are a treat to people pass the basic tests.


Quote:
. Unfortunately though the marketers have been able to influence the hobby enough that we see newbies coming here with the mistaken mindset that slabbing is an absolute necessity and just a normal part of the hobby everyone indulges in and desires.


It is a necessary part of todays hobby ESPECIALLY for someone knew. You are doing a great disservice to new people trying to convince them they don't need it with the minefield that raw coins are today. Unfortunately more people than necessary often end up having to learn that the hard way.


Quote:
Reading the guarantee shows its not all that simple


Yes actually it is that simple. If they slab a fake they will buy it back, or locate you a real one.


Quote:
The next paragraph specifically says they will take care of it if a person thinks its been overgraded (yeah - how many times is that likely to happen?)


It can and does happen every year.


Quote:
Add to this that the confidence is in the slabs and not the coin itself. If the coin is broken out of the slab, it cannot be guaranteed to have the same grade again!


Because it cannot be guaranteed that nothing happened to it. Just like your new car cannot be guaranteed to be new once you drive it off the lot or your tv isn't new once its out of the box ect.
Fire A.J. Preller
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6139 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2018  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Exactly. The actual ones that are a treat to people pass the basic tests.

I consider all fakes as a threat. Too many people do not educate themselves about them.

Just as I see the reality of things like the No Kennedy FG slab problem as a legitimate threat to people who don't take the time to buy the coin and not the slab. New people in the hobby need to see the reality that taking a label totally on faith can lose them money also.

As was said, the TPGs certainly should know better about the No FG varieties - they are paid to be the experts. And since the information is readily available online to us non-paid allegedly therefore non-able-to-be-expert collectors, most certainly my 30.00 will stay in my own pocket.


Quote:
[Quote:
Add to this that the confidence is in the slabs and not the coin itself. If the coin is broken out of the slab, it cannot be guaranteed to have the same grade again!

Because it cannot be guaranteed that nothing happened to it. Just like your new car cannot be guaranteed to be new once you drive it off the lot or your tv isn't new once its out of the box ect.


Even if nothing happens to the coin, it can receive a different grade.

Cracked coins resubmitted multiple times and getting a higher grade than before is a verifiable fact in the hobby's history. Also coins can be given lower grades when resubmitted. The process can continue with differing results. Ands this is especially so if crossed to another company.

This point is another thing newbies need to be educated on to get a better perspective of the reality of the TPG systems.


Quote:
Unfortunately more people than necessary often end up having to learn that the hard way.

Again I would like to know what figures you use to base your statements on. Otherwise they are assumptions.

I try to base everything I post on something verifiable and try to include the sources/references. The No FG example I posted earlier explains eBay is a place to go to research the data to find the facts.

Until you start to give verifiable facts behind your statements, no one benefits from your beliefs b/c your statements logically can be seen as speculation, Post the sources and data for your statements so we can all see and understand how your position is not simply baseless opinion but actual fact. Facts to back up statements speak volumes.


Quote:

Quote:
Reading the guarantee shows its not all that simple


Yes actually it is that simple. If they slab a fake they will buy it back, or locate you a real one.

You are absolutely correct that the TPGs will make it right to you if they accidentally slab a fake. I somehow misread what the person posting the statement had said and missed he was talking about just the guarantee on fakes. Thanks for pointing my error out to me.

I really would appreciate knowing sources for your statements (such as the aforementioned 99.9 percent) so I can make, what I am sure you would consider to be, better judgements of the specifics being discussed. Verifiable facts shared speak volumes and help everyone to make more informed decisions.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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9231 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  12:30 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Regarding the 1916-D Merc in the OP, anyone buying that coin raw is nuts.
ANA #R3154474
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Canada
683 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Optimist-numismatist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.Regarding the 1916-D Merc in the OP, anyone buying that coin raw is nuts.


Raw or not, the coin in the original post looks very iffy to me, and I think the tpgs would agree. Do with that what you will.
Valued Member
United States
430 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kylecolb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



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2429 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The GSC coin is a counterfeit. The shape of the D is incorrect as the inside of the D is oval and not trianglure. Some mint marks at this grade of coin will lose the triangle inside shape due to wear and hits. The D on the GSC shows no wear or hits that would cause the D to lose its shape. The D on the GSC coin has been added.
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18720 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not even close. I have found too many problems with slabs I have received and mistakes (in other areas than fakes). There is a lot of discussion concerning TPG errors on this forum.

I wonder how many people have fakes in their collections and don't know. The counterfeiters are getting better all the time lately. And remember they are also making their own slabs too.
As a side note some time ago I walked around at a coin show and asked dealers what they thought of my 1915 Mercury dime. Oddly enough many said nice coin. Would grade about AU or better.
just carl
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6139 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As a side note some time ago I walked around at a coin show and asked dealers what they thought of my 1915 Mercury dime. Oddly enough many said nice coin. Would grade about AU or better.

I do something similar when I show friends my Kennedy halves. The 1963 and 1975 varieties from Danial Carr are right in there with them. I like seeing how long it takes for people to recognize them.

But I wonder if the same dealers you fooled were put into the same setting as graders are in if they would still miss the fact its a 1915? I guess it depends on their specialty area? Since paid graders are supposed to be experts in all areas, I cannot see them ever missing something this obvious.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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United States
79134 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2018  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This topic devolved into another TPG versus no-TPG debate.

Meanwhile, the dime has been reported and the OP has moved on to other battles.

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