Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

1865 Indian Head Penny. Reverse Is 180 Rotated. Is This Real?

 
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
229 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  10:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chavez to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
All, going through my grandpas coins and there is a 1865 Indian head that has a hole in it. Maybe used as a necklace and when I turned it over the shield was at the bottom. It weighs 2.7 grams. Really weird.




*** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
39716 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks real. But a cull coin. Value would be a lot less than a normal coin for that year.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
4241 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The die orientation is wrong for that coin ... and for all US Mint coins.
To see the reverse upright for a US coin you have to flip from top to bottom, NOT side to side.

Question is, is it a Mint error or a fake.
In that condition I think it'll take a pro to tell.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
39716 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is like all US coins. Normal rotation. Check it with a cent in your pocket. (Unless you live in Canada)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
2124 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was orientation was normal, but after a second look see its not.

More food for thought is the old custom of placing a coin inside of or over a doorway comes to mind every time I see an old coin with a hole. Thanks, Doug.

http://goccf.com/t/61487
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Two sides to every coin. The edge makes three.
Side Note: Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3308 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die rotation in that era is not all that uncommon - dies were held in place with a set screw (modern dies have a machined keyway). It needs to be at least 45 degrees, often 90 to have any value.

It also occurred that they were simply setup 180 wrong. There was an run of 1861 3 cent silvers that were erroneously medal alignment instead of coin alignment.
-----Burton
45 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC
Owned by four cats and a wife of 35 years (joined 1983)
Pillar of the Community
United States
3376 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a 180 degree rotated die. Not common but it happens enough that there's no real rarity either. The coin is in pretty bad shape - it's only real value is that it belonged to your grandfather.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4353 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it is a mint error( die rotation), but too bad the coin is not in better condition.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
24634 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's still a very interesting piece to own though. It does have a Die Rotation, but because of its condition, it's not worth that much.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
2000 P LMC With Retained Struck Through error. http://goccf.com/t/357080
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
39716 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, I get it now. I thought the hole was at the top. (That is where they are, like always) It is a rotated die. Too bad the rest of the coin is in such bad shape.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Valued Member
United States
229 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chavez to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for you responses.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
24634 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're very welcome and no problem! Definitely an interesting piece of history.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
2000 P LMC With Retained Struck Through error. http://goccf.com/t/357080
Pillar of the Community
United States
4871 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHuntingDrew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It needs to be at least 45 degrees, often 90 to have any value.



That's new news to me. I've got an IHC that's somewhere in the 45-65 rotation.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4353 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's new news to me. I've got an IHC that's somewhere in the 45-65 rotation.

I agree, although the degree of rotation certainly dictates the value of this type error but I have sold several rotated die examples with even 15-20 degree rotation at the premium way above the face value! this is a popularly collected variety.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2124 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Estimate the 1865 cents rotation at 163 CW.

Note: I still maybe directionally impaired. I generally have no problems with rotated coins, but due to the hole in one direction and the rotation in the other, kept me over thinking this one.

A nice rotated example and keepsake all the same. Thanks, Doug.
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Two sides to every coin. The edge makes three.
Side Note: Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
14160 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2018  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An Indian Head cent is a Classic coin, so I moved your post to the appropriate section for the proper attention.
<---- expert of nothing, student of everything. My Coin Galleries
Here is: My Want List.... to work on my: Birth Year Set

Circulating Dollar Coins ......Circulating Half Dollar Coins ...... Circulating Two Dollar Bills
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.22 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05