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Completely Centsles.. Ebay Seller Taking Advantage Of Newbies.

 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2234 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  12:03 am  Show Profile   Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Medical treatments can be quantified in real life numbers, or at the very least clinically "backed up". There is no fooling anyone when it comes to treating the big "C"... you're either alive in the end... or not...

try applying that to coin collecting...

On the other hand, 3rd party coin grades are an opinion (you get what you pay for), and can only be validated by a dollar amount when sold.

I can write MS70 on every 2x2 in my albums - it means nothing - and to compare the 2 is extremely disrespectful - to both sides of the situation.
Edited by Wade
06/21/2019 12:06 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12269 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
His comparison isn't as far off as you think nor as cut and dry as you make it. Any disease will have a percentage of people that will beat it no matter what, and on the other hand who will pass on no matter what. That isn't measurable. Nor is it generally controlled for individually which is what the new genetic research some are doing is attempting to start doing. Everything in medicine works for some and not for others, it's not an exact science that it gets made out to be and plenty of medical things just treat people as cattle where if it doesn't work for an individual oh well it works for enough people for them to make money.

He was just making a comparison and showing how people are fine with situations in other parts of their life just as getting a house appraised or a mechanic fixing their car or an airplane being flown by a pilot, but for some reason when it comes to coins some think they know it all and can do as well or better than the experts who do it for a career. Obviously certain things are more serious than others but the point about how people readily and happily seek out expert opinions and what they have to offer in all facets of their lives besides coins was very valid
Valued Member
Canada
425 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin-Flipper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Problem with all these coin grading companies is that they are taking complete advantage of the situation. They inflate grades. The coin is either an MS or not and it should be cut and dry. The resubmitting/ crossing over / upgrading is all BS. That coin for example is XF 40 and thats that and it shouldnt grade higher because its a key date or some type of a rarity. There is a standard on grading these coins and anything graded above or below should have some type of accountability.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4553 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Problem with all these coin grading companies is that they are taking complete advantage of the situation.


Grading companies are no different than other companies in the "bizness" world....it's all about money!


Quote:
The resubmitting/ crossing over / upgrading is all..


The more crack outs and resubmissions for upgrades leads to more revenue for the grading companies. It's all about trying to make more money for the submitters AND more profit for the grading companies.

It's all just a big game!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1185 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think a lot of people misunderstand CAC and its reasoning. The market and collectors made an assumption that a CAC "green bean" indicates that the slabbed coin is choice in its grade, or of superior quality. As a result, a premium developed for coins with CAC's approval. However, that's not what the little green sticker represents. A CAC green bean simply means that the coin has been reviewed by CAC and in their opinion the assigned grade on the slab is correct (not too low and not too high.) 

This is not completely true.
If a decimal point system was introduced (and I believe that the current graders actually use one), we would see coins that just made the grade re MS-65.1 or MS-65.2 that would be considered 'c' coins. MS-65.4 to MS-65.6 would be solid for the grade, and considered 'b' coins. MS-65.7 and 65.8 would be considered high end for the grade, refered to as the 'a' coins.
Only the 'a' and 'b' coins will receive stickers. Thus green beaned coins should be solid to high end for the grade.
To earn a gold sticker, the coin would receive a green bean at least one grade higher.
My last 4 purchases have all been cac approved. Other than the toned Peace dollar, which even I wanted JA's in hand opinion on, I did not actively search for the sticker. l settled on the coins themselves, for what I felt they were. It just so happened that cac agreed.

Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
801 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The modern equivalent of the old adages:

1. Buy the book before you buy the coin. Yes, book . . . those things made from dead trees and ink.
2. Study the book. Don't just stick it on a bookshelf.
3. Join a club that specializes in the coin. This is easy to do online.
4. Learn to grade the coin. Start online with PCGS Photograde for U.S. coins and Saskatoon Coin Club's Canadian Coin Grading guide, and other resources.
5. Bookmark useful web sites and check them often.
6. Read forum posts and ask questions. (The crusty old curmudgeons like me usually don't bite, but we may take a nibble now and then.)
7. Assemble your own grading set of the coin. (This is obviously less expensive to do for, say, Lincoln cents than for double eagles.)
8. Learn the nuances of grading your coin - strike qualities, wear points, die states, mint differences in strike, etc.
9. Ask questions. Have others grade your coin and ask how they arrive at the grade.
10. Subscribe to the Greysheet and learn the tradeoffs between price and grade.
11. Look at a lot of the particular coin at shows. Handle them. See how they look in hand. Notice the subtleties of strike, luster, wear, bag marks, and the trouble areas. Notice the parts of the coin that seldom are fully struck.
12. Never, ever, buy the slab, the grade, or the opinion. Always, only, buy the coin, and then only based on your grade and your valuation.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1185 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fortcollins, although I want to agree with you, and in principle do, the reality is that collector's can pay huge tuition fees getting to that point (and most never will).
Have you ever taken the grading challenge at a major show?
I have, and let me say, it was a rather humbling experience.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
801 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2019  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@hadleydog, I certainly agree that the learning curve unfairly comes at the expense of collectors. The ANA and others are helping, but more help is needed.

There are coin series I feel very comfortable grading, and others that I observe, but rarely weigh in with an opinion. Morgans, Buffs, and Canadian and Provincial coins? You betcha. Hand me a Draped Bust half dime or early large cent? Not so much so. Very few collectors have deep knowledge of more than a few series. That's where the TPGs can shine and reliable TPGs do shine. They have a wide array of graders and can cover most coins very well.

The biggest part of the problem comes with Slabs-R-Us TPGs and wild west marketplaces like eBay. In the days of Teletrade, collectors had a viable marketplace with trusted TPG coins. That's the missing sector of collecting today. CDN Exchange and others are trying, but the old Teletrade was essential.

Grading scams, altered coins, counterfeits, and palming off whizzed coins are real problems. The longer these problems persist, the more likely we will see federal regulatory oversight of coin sales. The cure may be worse than the disease. JMHO.
New Member
Brazil
2 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2019  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sheecko to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm thinking about buy coins with centsles just considering that they 'overgrade' their coins.

My doubts are:
Do they sell fake coins? Or they are only badly graded? if the coins are not fake I can scan for good deals anyway.

Thanks in advance
Pillar of the Community
United States
4553 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2019  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sheecko...

I don't think they sell fake coins but they do have a reputation for selling overgraded coins.

Do your homework and tread forward very lightly before buying from them.

Good luck.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
12503 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2019  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@sheecko, after reading this thread you should consider yourself forewarned. Surely you can do better with a better seller.

Welcome to CCF by the way!
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
New Member
Brazil
2 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2019  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sheecko to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@westernsky and @speance thanks for the answers.

The only reason for considering buying with them is that I found brazilian coins for good prices (I collect brazilian and american coins by year, and world coins by types).

Sometimes brazilian coins are cheaper abroad, so I need to balance 'risk x benefit' and I found a coin with a good price.

Cheers
Pillar of the Community
United States
4553 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2019  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finding "a good coin at a good price" with this Seller usually means it has problems that have been hidden by their photography tricks.

Many Buyers have been burned by these people. Read the Seller's fine print and read ALL THE FEEDBACK before diving in.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
75094 Posts
Pillar of the Community
United States
5047 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2019  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One additional concern for NNC coins is that the foam insert conceals edge problems. NNC has no compunctions about slabbing coins with edge damage. Any such damage will not be mentioned on the label.
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